« OPEN FORUM: GOING MOBILE WITH SL | Main | THE WORLD FROM MY WINDOW: ABADDON »

Tuesday, June 12, 2007

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Morgana Fillion

*sigh* ever since I first realized that "Lolita" has been eliminated from search, I've wanted to have a gathering of people, all dressed in their Lolita attire, to discuss Nabokov's book.

I understand taking steps to eliminate a real problem, but when non-involved concepts are also eliminated because they might confuse the ignorant, I refuse to play along.

I think I'll be wearing my Lolita attire more frequently for awhile, not less. I am frankly far more concerned that the Morality Police seem to see sex in everything than I am that someone who likes wide skirts and ruffles might be harboring a vague sense of nostalgia about their childhood.

Laetizia Coronet

What is unclear is if the new policies or communications from LL have caused a change in the behaviour towards smaller avatars. I know that even before any scandal arose, many people were already discussing age play in a most negative way.
I personally wouldn't frown upon 'petite' avatars (heck you should see Robin Linden!) but when I saw 'lockable diapers' the other day I did send in a report. Not requesting to ban anything but to look into it. Unfortunately abuse reports are not really made for that sort of thing.
And that's the snare: the evelasting lack of clarity about what is and what is not permitted, and the impossibility to communicate such matters without sending abuse reports. It practically invites people to make up their own laws.

Otenth Paderborn

Oh dear, I really do think it is perhaps time to mute, ban, and AR Daniel Linden.

Valerie Bethune

When I joined SL more than a year ago, I understood from the Lindens that one of the greatest crimes in-world is prejudice.

Now they are encouraging it.

Crissa

I generally mute the lockable diapers.

...But that's not a portion of pedophilic play. So why you'd report it just means you're an idiot.

Ananda

I guess "moral panic" may be one way to describe it. Another might be knee-jerk hatred and oppression, or encouragement of a climate of fear by those in authority, however inadvertent. Here's yet another group that really has nothing to do with the sort of crimes everyone is afraid of, getting painted with the same broad brush by fellow residents. People, this has got to stop! These are fellow adult human beings you're dealing with, not some sort of alien monster, come to steal your children.

This is yet another example of why our group, Libre Second Life, is striving to reverse Linden Lab's recent course of singling out and banning one "broadly offensive" group after another. And why so many other groups are looking for similar reversals and reassurance from SL that tolerance is still allowed.

http://libresecondlife.org

Laetizia Coronet

Crissa, befoe calling anyone an idiot you might want to learn how to read first.

"Not requesting to ban anything but to look into it. Unfortunately abuse reports are not really made for that sort of thing."

Cordially,
Tish Coronet

Tateru Nino

This began a few hours after Robin Linden's "accusations of child pornography in Second Life" posting, back in early May.

Within hours child avatars were being harassed or threatened. And not just children, but just plain *short* avatars too.

I still hear about short, non-child avatars being harassed in sandboxes or banned from mature stores.

http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2007/05/10/the-campaign-for-equal-heights/

Cyn Vandeverre

As has been pointed out elsewhere, a nearly-identical panic on the part of the organization on this topic, was suffered by LiveJournal and its users two weeks ago. They also suspended accounts which were doing literary discussion of the book, because they didn't realize such discussions weren't trying to solicit underage sex. They very quickly realized their mistake and are working with the EFF to make some sensible guidelines.

LL might well benefit from reading LJ's saga:
http://news.livejournal.com/100060.html

Patrick

This must be close to the rising panic that Humbert Humbert felt.

Benjamin Duranske (avatar 'Benjamin Noble')

So it's come to this: the MPAA (which gave the 1997 film adaptation of Nabakov's book an "R") appears to be more responsible and less irrational than Linden Lab. It's a textbook case of the problem content censorship, especially if it's done with machine searching. Unintended targets always get caught up in the net. Don't believe it? Try to re-create a virtual version of the town of Lolita, Texas, or open a restaurant that serves clams casino, and see what happens to your "places" description.

And legally, as I've said before, *this* is exactly the step that their legal department should tell them to reverse. Doing content policing themselves is a terrible idea if they ever want to claim common carrier status and/or remain under the protection of Section 230(c) of the CDA.

Lillie Yifu

I repoerted on ths on May 17th, when a friend of the store owner complained to me. I think it is time for a Gothic Lolita day for me.

Hamburger Hamburger

"This must be close to the rising panic that Humbert Humbert felt."

Except that Humbert Humbert was moral excrement who deserved to feel rising panic, and deserved much worse than he eventually got.

Makara Yorimasa

I tried being my RL height (5 feet 7) for half a day but was ejected from so many beaches and clubs that in the end I stretched myself up to the 6 foot 10 inch "norm" again. My profile has always said I'm a 33 yo male, so anyone could have seen that I wasn't a child av just by clicking on it. However, the mere fact that I was only shoulder tall to most of the huge triangular male avs around me was enough to provoke a wave of annoyance amongst my fellow residents.

I do think the girls who wear Gothic Lolita styles protest too much, though. Admittedly, it is a well-known part of Japanese youth culture, but there is a sexual aspect to the style which can't be denied, even if it is just dressing up. There's a reason it's called "Gothic Lolita" and not "Gothic Pollyanna". Having said that, when the people involved are residents of (presumably) 18 y/o or more, who are we to deny them the right to dress like tarty vampire dolls? I dunno… I'm in two minds about all this...

John Branch

I'm a fashion fan, and I love the EGL style (which is still somewhat new to me). I particularly admire the look of Melpomene Rhode in the portrait by Iris posted above and have saved the image for future reference. Any lurking Puritans out there who want to misinterpret my purposes in doing so are welcome to. Only one complaint about the image as it appears here: a centered subject is undramatic; the off-center is almost always more dynamic.

Beyond questions of strict fashion, I'm intrigued by the issues raised by Lolita-style avatars and clothing styles such as this. Myself, I can't help remembering that avatars aren't the same as real people and that virtual intimations of sexual precocity (which is what some people seem to detect here) aren't the same as the real thing, nor is the real thing necessarily a good reason for suspicion or offense. Britney Spears, Madonna, and no doubt a number of real-world figures before them all advanced their fame in the world by means of such things. On the other hand, one reason fashion is worth paying attention to is that it's not just clothes; it encodes a number of things about society. When one set of people gets upset over something another set is doing, it's often because the codes are being applied one way by those who chose them and another way by those who read (or misread) them.

None of that really says very much, I know. Maybe this will: As somebody observed in an entertainment-industry publication (I could find the attribution if I had to), there's a global cult of offense-taking these days. Since it's prevalent in RL, we can't be surprised if it turns up in SL too.

Cathleen Ting

There was also an interesting piece on the cover of the Avastar this week entitled "We're not all Ageplayers" referring to those child avatars not into sexual age play who are finding their SL life hell now. www.the-avastar.com I suppose it's not surprising that discrimination is rife in SL - especially as people can insult others whilst 'hiding' behind their avatar.

darkfoxx

"There was also an interesting piece on the cover of the Avastar this week entitled "We're not all Ageplayers" referring to those child avatars not into sexual age play who are finding their SL life hell now."

This sounds really stupid.
Why? cause those with child AV's *are* ageplayers.
This irks me to no end: ever since shit hit the fan about this the term ageplay means sexualizing child AV's to everyone, and appearently now even to those who are non sexual ageplayers themselves...

If one means Sexual Ageplayer, CALL IT THAT.
Ageplayer means nothing more then acting (having an avatar) like a child. it has NOTHING to do with pedophilia, that would be sexual ageplay.

This little group of child AV's not wanting to seem to be into more adult games, are shooting themselves, and every other non sexual ageplayer in the foot. With a rocket launcher...

Ageplay: INNOCENTly pretending to be kids.
Sexual ageplay: virtual pedophilia.

The difference between these two terms couldn't be bigger.

Neuro

Oh how pathetic. People often mix up an innocent fashion with some nasty real-life convicts.

Lolita has been around and will continue to be around. It has not gone away. People's ignorance at the subject is simply amazing, at the unfortunate cost of blindly discriminating against players as well. There's been too much art and gothic art to play so ignorant now.

Either get hip to the age, or get out from under the rock. I could care less for folks who play biggot, especially in Second-Life.

Neuro

@darkfoxx

What about all the romance novels out there? That's right i'm talking about novels like Twilight and similar content. What about the guy who's been dating a chick for years and suddenly one of them hits the age-limit? I'm talking about high-school sweethearts here who've been together for some time, not some run-of-the-mill generated crap.

The sad fact about it is that because of the few, messed up sicko's out there anyone who has a lolita-type fashion character gets mistreated in SL and discriminated easily.

Honestly I would like to see Second-Life get cleaned up completely. I'm sick of looking at all the rape places where people get money to pretend to violate other people. And the other places were furries get to stick their nasty bits into make-believe animals.

Linden Labs is a greedy little whore though, and it won't dump it's money maker no matter how defile and immoral it is. If they got rid of the adult stuff period Second-Life wouldn't exist.

That's how pathetic this money-making game is. Feeding off addictions from the addicted.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Wagner James Au New World Notes Social VR blog
250x250SpaceAd
Ample Avi  SL avatars
SL fashion blog Cajsa Gidge
my site ... ... ...