NWN Exclusive: Interview with Rod Humble, Linden Lab's New CEO, on the Future of Second Life

Rod Humble in his office where Linden Lab's Secret Plans are hatched

I spoke with freshly-appointed Linden Lab CEO Rod Humble yesterday in a wide-ranging conversation on Second Life, the world whose fate now largely depends on him. Where Linden’s first CEO, company founder Philip Rosedale, aimed to make SL an important part of the future Internet, and where his replacement, Mark Kingdon, aimed to make SL an important part of future work online, Humble joins the company at a time when such goals seem years away if at all.

By contrast, Rod Humble’s immediate goals for Second Life are much more, well, humble: Improving the user experience for new users, and addressing problems with lag and customer service, for established Residents. If you believed that an iPad version of Second Life might arrive soon, Humble suggested that may need to wait awhile; if you believed Linden Lab’s revenue model of virtual land must change, because it’s unsustainable and unable to scale, Humble gave no indication it was about to be altered any time soon. In fact, as we ended our phonecall, Mr. Humble asked me what I thought the best first fix to Second Life should be.

After the break, Mr. Humble and I air these subjects and more: Why he left an executive job at videogame dreadnaught Electronic Arts to helm Linden’s listing frigate; his chief role in renewing Second Life, Facebook integration, Second Life's branding problem, why longtime landowners should stay, and much more:

How Rod Humble first became interested and aware of Second Life, and why he decided to become its CEO:

“I’d always known about it... it’s one of those things that sort of percolates through the general consciousness of people that are into any kind of interactive entertainment and virtual worlds.”  

Then Linden executive recruiters contacted him late last year. “As I was approached to come here... I didn’t realize just how much of a creativity tool [SL] was.” That realization helped firm up his decision. As for leaving Electronic Arts, he says there was “[r]eally a need for a change. Electronic Arts is a great company, but I’d worked there the longest of any company. When I saw the opportunity [to take over Linden]... it felt right.”

What Rod Humble can best bring to Second Life

“Biggest value I can bring, having worked on the entertainment side [of tech]... ease of use and accessibility are obviously extremely important.” At EA, a chief challenge of his was asking, “‘How can we make interacting with a game enjoyable?’ We spent a lot of effort just making sure people can be pulled through the game. I think Second Life is almost the reverse... people who are quite comfortable with computers get totally frustrated [trying to use it.]” His goal with Second Life, then, is wondering, “‘How can we make sure the front door is open and people can come in and enjoy it?’”

Rod Humble’s overall strategy for growing Second Life in the next year

“Our current customers need to be sure they have the customer service they deserve... [also], lag is a problem.” For new users, “We’re looking at various ways to make SL easier to get into, and that’s good for everybody.” He and his team are “looking at all sorts of plans and solutions” to reach that goal, but haven’t yet decided on a particular strategy.

On what Rod Humble-driven changes we will see this year

For longtime Residents, he says Linden Lab will immediately address lag and customer service. With customer service, “I get a daily report on how that queue is coming down. When it comes to lag, there’s a test on the beta server” which should bring some improvements soon.

Rod Humble in Second Life where his avatar is a Roman Senator

On whether the name “Second Life” is a branding problem that is now hurting growth.

“If I was to tell you there’s this product [where] you can be whoever you want to be, and you can play games, listen to music, watch videos, attend roleplaying games, run a business and fashion shows, you’d probably think I’m crazy...

"I don’t think the offering itself is unappealing... over time, the perception of Second Life has changed and it’s kinda been yanked around by us.” He noted the company variously offered up Second Life as a business platform, a virtual platform for adults, or a game, “and we’ve kinda mushed it up... It’s foremost a tool where you can make and do whatever you want. Over time, that [negative] brand perception will change as we do the right thing...”

“When it comes to names and perceptions like that, I think those things can always change over time... I still remember [the mockery] when the Wii was announced... then it blew everyone away.” With The Sims, he noted, “For awhile there, people were saying ‘Why do I want to go into a game and pee?’” Then the game franchise became a monster hit. So with the name Second Life, “I don’t think it’s going to be an anchor.”

Why Rod Humble thinks people will sign up for SL in a year’s time:

“I think people in a year’s time will want to come to Second Life because they know they can be who they want to be... and when they join, they’ll be able to meet interesting people, and they can have a home... that’s more than enough.”

Whether Rod Humble thinks SL’s land revenue model is sustainable.

“I think so. I think it’s a very innovative business model, and I think the idea of customers being able to develop profitable businesses with each other is really the secret sauce... When it comes to the land model itself, I think our job is to develop features which people use to develop. I wouldn’t want to radically change the model, because I understand the costs involved. I’d like to increase the value for people who use SL, land owners and everybody.”

Rod Humble on integrating Second Life with Facebook:

“I think it’s interesting [as an idea but]... I think you have to be very careful. You always have to put the privacy controls in the hands of our customers. Beyond that, I think it’s pretty powerful... but number one priority is customers can control their privacy.”

How important is deploying SL on iOS, and when will we see it?

“I want to figure out how to interact in Second Life first before going to other platforms... Before then, it’s the cart before the horse.” However, he added, making an SL for the iPad is still a long term goal.

Isn’t Second Life a legacy system that’s moving away from all the major tech trends: Mobile, real life social media, and motion control (i.e. Kinect)?

“I think the company and the world is going to grow... those things you mentioned are fairly interesting to integrate [with Second Life.] I think the hard bit is getting the ability to interact intuitively with the world. A lot of big social media successes are largely based on ease of use...

“I certainly don’t think SL is going to be flat... I think we’re in for some pretty good times actually.”

I asked Rod Humble to comment on a statement from an NWN reader and land owner Judi Newall: "We get to pay full price for a sim, provide free entertainment and be teachers for your customers as well. Where's the incentive to stay?"

“I would say, I would hope the improved customer service and improved basis of our overall service [usability, technical] would encourage our customers to stay.” Rod Humble went on to emphasize the magic of Second Life as a powerful retention force.

Can you grow Second Life’s userbase this year? By how much?

"Yes, and I’m not sure by how much. My aim is for millions and millions of users, while at the same time [making sure] our current customers are well-served. There are several things to [first] address with our customers."

At the end of our conversation, Rod Humble asked me what I thought the best first fix to Second Life should be. I said: Facebook integration with a cloud-deployed version of SL with single point-and-click avatar movement.

“I was right there with you with the point and click interface... we’ll get that in pretty rapidly.”

Thanks to Loki, Judi Newall, and Aquarius Paravane for inspiring many of the questions asked above. Photo of Mr. Humble by Peter Linden.

Update, 2/10: Bumped for continued interest!

Comments

[JoJa Dhara]

Great interview only miss one question

"Do you have a Lindenbear?"

Wish all the luck and see what the future holds. We just doing our best to make the 3 D internet shine on the other sites of the globe.

[Loki]

Nice words, although Kingdon said nice words at the start. In a years time i want to be able to look back and say "yes Humble improved my Second Life experience as a content creator and SIM owner."

[Chestnut Rau]

I like the words I am hearing but words are insufficient after all this time. I want to see sustained, concrete action.

"Acta, non verba"

[Trella McMahon]

It is most promising words flowing as long needed warm winds on a cold dead planet. But I can say customer service as well as knowledgable support is far from in place. I have the data on hand of on going cases never addressed 'yet', such as over charging & branding abuse as well as slander. The lab will not answer a question, then hold your creations hostage, they will even sale your work while you are blocked from doing anything about it, they will make a decision that can be very wrong & you have no way for them to hear the right side. You have to accept their decision, right or wrong & pay it 'before' they will ever reopen your creative door back to the grid. Onr door shut on one avie or a few means nothing for it is easy to keep what is done to them by the lab quiet. We're watching & hoping these new words actually hold future water.

[Aquarius Paravane]

Thanks for the mention, Hamlet. Re cloud rendering, bandwidth could be an issue with today's technology. I'd rather see a WebGL client - then it would run on anything with a browser and we wouldn't need to wait for mobile clients.

[Arcadia Codesmith]

"...point-and-click avatar movement..."

*facepalm*

No, no, no, BAD! Point and click is for 2D/isometric top-down games like The Sims with two axis of movement. WASD/arrow keys or mouse-based movement is for immersive environments with three axis of movement. 3000 meters up with no reference points, point and click means you ain't going nowhere.

If you want to develop it as an option and it doesn't take a lot of time away from more important priorities, go for it, but it should be an opt-in for 2D junkies, not the default.

While you're at it, build a full-fledged MMO-style interface for new users coming into SL from that side of the shop. We desperately need more cross-pollination between social worlds and game worlds.

[Crap Mariner]

That's a nice pizza he's tossing.
Almost got your mouth watering, does he?
Fresh ingredients, less cheese this time around.
Let's see if he delivers.

-ls/cm

[Hitomi Tiponi]

Just to point out (as I have done before) - Point-and-click' avatar movement has been available in SL for some time. In Viewer 2 you go to 'Move & View' in 'Preferences' and select 'Double Click To' and 'Autopilot'.

Despite you trying to slant it to your own agenda Hamlet I thought Rod answered the questions very well, and it gives me great confidence for the future now that he is in charge.

[Flo2]

On the contrary, with much disappointment I can see no real answers to the questions. (Especially to the question by Judi Newall.)
Mr. Humble speaks not like a CEO, but like a back-office manager. I was hoping for a new concept, a realistic fresh vision so badly, but customer support and lag-management is not a concept. :(

And personally I become more and more desperate because of this Facebook-maniac approach of things. Me, who are not on FB, and never will, will never understand those who want to share their RL details with the whole world. And vice versa, FB-fans, it seems, will never understand that I don't want to share my private ID, or want to be "tracked" easily. "Facebook integration" makes me to become an outcast.

[Pathfinder]

I wish you had asked him about the growth of Opensim and interconnected virtual worlds via Hypergrid.

Would be interesting to hear his thoughts about how he thinks SL fits in to a bigger picture of interconnected virtual worlds.

[Rusalka Writer]

Second Life— the only technology in the world that neither improves nor gets cheaper! Join today!

[Adeon Writer]

Great interview. But on cloud computing, I really don't see many people wanting to pay for SL cloud (its unfeasable as a free service) while SL on the web is great, facebook games are popular in part because they are free.

By the way, SL has a click to walk feature. No one knows this because no one uses it, no one uses it because it's a bad system for what most physically active avatars want to do in world. (which is pretty much everything besides walking in straight lines.)

[Arcadia Codesmith]

Stability, performance, and customer service may not be sexy and bold, but they're what will keep the platform afloat when ambitious initiatives crumble. Nothing improves "vision" quite like a rock-solid tower to gaze from.

[Robustus Hax]

Point and click interface! no!!!!! Don't turn SL into Blue Mars!!!! Everything is clickable in SL, I don't want or need my avatar walking over to everything I click on. Good grief.

[Ananda]

Okay, lovely, he's dashing everyone's hopes except Hamlet, who's the only person I've ever even heard of actually liking point-and-click.

This is not a 2.5D mmo! It's fully 3D and nearly everything in the environment is potentially interactive! Attempting point and click would be stupid, stupid. Mouse movement (holding the buttons down to move forward and steer) on the other hand, might be a good thing. It actually works in 3D, sort of.

[Wizard Gynoid]

that's no inspiring "I have a dream!" speech. i will just wait and see. glad to hear that Facebook won't be crammed down our throats. if that happened i would flat out up and leave.

[Ciaran Laval]

This Facebook obsession is getting silly, there's even a new plugin on the homepage now. Mr Humble talks of people being able to be who they want to be, getting immersed in roleplay, whilst the website is shoving Facebook down our throats left, right and centre.

[Patti]

he's got a really bad texture on that wall behind him, he needs a better builder...

[Judi Newall]

TY for asking the question, shame about the answer. The "magic of SL" comes from the content creators, I'm NOT one of them though! I have very talented friends in Madcow Cosmos & Lorin Tone and I do some 'gofering' & text for the incredible Madpeas, but I concede that LL prides a great engine for all users, when it works.

I'm with Robustus (& others) on the point & click, but he said it best "I don't want or need my avatar walking over to everything I click on. Good grief."

[Hamlet Au]

We had a discussion about point-and-click a couple years ago, and interestingly, the example I cited was the one that Rod Humble worked on: The Sims franchise:

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2009/11/how-to-make-sl-mass-market.html

As Rod reminded me and my readers did back then, there already *is* a point-and-click feature in SL, it's just not very well implemented or exposed. But presumably that's what he means will be fixed soon.

[Hamlet Au]

Thanks for the correction, Judi, I've taken out "content creator".

[Ann Otoole InSL]

Why get hung up on adding one movement option? It isn't going to hurt anyone that doesn't use it.

I hope Rod does well with SL. He certainly has the right credentials for the job. Now we get to wait and see what happens over the next year or two.

[Robustus Hax]

I really don't see anything wrong with avatar movement in SL, in fact, the agility and ease of movement (when there isn't massive lag of course) gives SL a leg up over other virtual worlds where the avatar is clunky and walks in straight lines when you click on something. I hope a lot of resources won't be tied up in this sort of thing, I really don't think click to move works in this setting or is clamored for, but that is just my opinion.

[Ordinal Malaprop]

I quite like the idea of somebody coming in who _doesn't_ have some sort of master plan, and happily says "well I can't say right now what the best course is". Of course he doesn't. Nobody would. Anybody who said, at this stage, in an interview, that they had a detailed plan for SL would be immediately very suspect.

These references to "ease of use" worry me a little (the problems with SL are not the controls) but I have a feeling that they're being said on a quite general basis because, well, if one is new to something and being asked for a goal statement, "make it easier to use" is always something that sounds good.

No point and click movement by the way, for heaven's sake. We are not living in a Lucasarts adventure.

[Toxic Menges]

Point and click like The Sims is a bad idea in anything but the most noob flavoured viewer. I am sure as Mr Humble gets a grip on the culture and usability of SL, this will become evident.