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Tuesday, March 08, 2011

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Danielle

"For one, Facebook’s terms require users to provide real names and information", after which they will "accidentally" reveal it to all and sundry the next time they update their software, and reset your privacy settings to "everyone".
They have done that before, several times.

Sorry, I take my privacy seriously, and refuse to enter RL data at a site which does not need it, and has a dismal record of handling private data. I have been a victim of identity theft in the past, and have no desire to repeat that experience.

Someplace like Amazon.com is different, they need my RL info for me to pay for things and deliver them. But if they "accidentally" released that data, I would stop doing business with them.

Ciaran Laval

There is not a cat in hell's chance that Facebook is more informative about Second Life happenings than Twitter.

The best place to find out about the cool things happening in Second Life, remains, Inworld.

Sasy Scarborough

wow way to just wipe away all the hard work that hundreds if not thousands of bloggers do daily to spread as much information, and share as much content as possible for people wanting to find information on Second Life, look up anything related to it in google and you will not get facebook, you will get blogs that work so hard like this one to share their passion for this great community.
I know many residents who came to SL just from seeing fashion images crop up in flickr and so on, explored further to the blogs and signed up after reading about us.

I have a facebook account and the only thing it has going for it at the moment is that it has free diner dash.

Sasy

Crap Mariner

I always assumed that the statement:

"Like Us on Facebook: Facebook is the best place to find out about cool things going on in Second Life, share ideas, and get the inside scoop on inworld events, contests, machinima releases, PR activities, fun discussions, and more. Come join over 111,000 people who have “Liked” our Second Life Facebook page."

was incomplete.

It *should* have read:

"Like Us on Facebook: Facebook is the best place to find out about cool things going on in Second Life because the in-world search, group notice, and communications tools are unreliable and frustrating. Share your real life identity (as per Facebook's TOS) and get the inside scoop on inworld events, contests, machinima releases, PR activities, fun discussions, and an annoying number of invites and notices to games you don't care about. Come join over 111,000 people who have “Liked” our Second Life Facebook page."

She must have fallen asleep and her face landed on the Delete key or something. Happens to me all the time, waiting for stuff to rez.

-ls/cm

couldbe yue

" It *should* have read:

"Like Us on Facebook: Facebook is the best place to find out about cool things going on in Second Life because the in-world search, group notice, and communications tools are unreliable and frustrating. Share your real life identity (as per Facebook's TOS) and get the inside scoop on inworld events, contests, machinima releases, PR activities, fun discussions, and an annoying number of invites and notices to games you don't care about. Come join over 111,000 people who have “Liked” our Second Life Facebook page."

She must have fallen asleep and her face landed on the Delete key or something. Happens to me all the time, waiting for stuff to rez. "

1 user Likes this: Couldbe Yue

Inara Pey

*Yawn*

Still on the SL / FB jive, Hamlet? You really are starting to sound like a cracked record.

Casey Pelous

And the reason I'd want to associate my RL -- user name or no user name -- with SL (reputation in many circles: "sleazy") or with LL (reputation in my tech & business circles ranging from "last decade's news" to "strategically lost", "laughably inept" and "security nightmare") in ANY shape, form or fashion would be ............um............????????????

HUH?

Don't get me wrong, I'm passionate about this platform and the possibilities and have been for quite a few years now. But there are limits, and they start right over there where you see that big sign that says "Now entering RL."

Robustus Hax

Advice to Linden Lab, start using your own platform. When they want to communicate with their residents, they do it on their blog. When they want you to give feedback, do it on the forum. When they want you to share things, do it on Facebook. Want to make friends, go on avatars united. What does it say about the Second Life platform, that the company that operates it wouldn't even use it as a last resort? I hoped Rod Humble would have "gotten it" and put the kibosh on this kind of ridiculousness, but I guess not.

Ananda

A bunch of likes on a Facebook page is not a group.

James OReilly

I Am An Out-World Newbie
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4237776&l=14a5e3280a&id=622664200

James OReilly

Get An Opensim Standalone Quad-Sim On A Stick 180,000 prims https://simonastick.com/

More Stuff: Standalone Configuration: Moodle + SLoodle + Opensim
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Ossian

"Amanda Linden also said, she understands that some Residents resist Facebook, and that's fine..."

It's not only *fine* that she understands that, it's *good* that she understands it.

Ordinal Malaprop

@Ananda: it certainly isn't, and that was one of the problems with Hamlet's past post on the matter. LL is blatantly trolling for Likes for publicity on Facebook ("like us and we'll give you the inside scoop!") and the responses do not at all indicate any sort of community.

That aside, there is nothing wrong with people posting things about SL on Facebook, any more than on Twitter or Plurk or Livejournal or their own blogs or talking to their friends over a cup of tea and a scone. I am not personally concerned if LL wish to make it easy for people to do so and encourage them to do so - that seems sensible.

What concerns me is when there is an over-concentration on one network (far more active SL use on Plurk for instance) and, particularly, when a particular network is used for something that is exclusive to that network. Say, a competition that requires people to post things via Facebook. That really does go beyond advertising. There should never be anything like that at all.

Lewis Luminos

It's all the wrong way round. I don't want my RL Facebook friends to see that I've "liked" Second Life, without revealing my avatar name. I want my SL friends to see that I've "liked" Second Life without revealing my RL name.

Senban Babii

<---RL SL--->

Think about something. With tools like Redzone making all those connections about you, connecting your RL and SL simply gives people like that even more data to scrape and collate.

Let me repeat.

<---RL SL--->

I can see of course that LL is trying to tap into the word-of-mouth marketing as a way to recruit new residents. There's nothing wrong with that but they'd be more productive if they spent time making SL more attractive and engaging so that new residents are inclined to stay once they have joined. That's the real trick and the solution does not lie with social networking but rather with gamification (to use the jargon du jour).

Also Hamlet? Your agenda is showing again dear ;)

Casey Pelous

LL: Want to create a perfectly amazing social network? Make the communication tools inworld work, then make more.

Group Chat would be light years beyond anything I could get on Facebook in terms of experience IF IT WORKED. If I could somehow filter and save important pieces of it while I was off line, EVEN COOLER.

The other day I wanted to send a notecard to all my friends alerting them to the privacy issues associated with redZone, and letting them know that despite rumors, it was never "banned". There was no simple mechanism I could find (though I hear there's some way in viewer 2 ...) to do that simple, social task. I had to script up a prim to do that job.

I've never quite grasped the difference between News and Status on Facebook, but something like that could be incorporated in Profiles -- inworld only, please -- and there would be another social networking option.

How come I can't have inworld "Twitting" to people who choose to follow me?

I could go on -- but the point is, asking us to "break the fourth wall" to go screw around on the 2D web while we're inworld reveals a profound failure the nature of this medium.

Make. It. Cooler. Then, frankly, we'll probably fall all over ourselves bringing in our friends.

ColeMarie Soleil

Wow hostility much? No one is forcing anyone to go use it O.o

LindaPaine

I can't resist: It must be a student apprentice in the beginning there in the Lab who is responsible for the PR at Linden Lab after years of descent from any PR work. A lot of facebook analysts are in doubt that the facebook-bladder is bringing any benefit as a fanbook. The "new" marketing strategy is wimpy.

Danielle

@Casey - Blue Mars just added a Twitter button to their PC version, so you *can* tweet from in world. It's therefore quite possible for SL to do it too, if they wanted.

Gumby Roffo

OH no Facebook is very safe for privacy >.< Who can forget such great moments as this one! https://www.computersecurityarticles.info/facebook/dating-site-imports-250000-facebook-profiles-without-permission/

Male Pixel in an attractive purchased skin into dressing up and teleportation would like to share mainland location with an attractive female pixel. Must be able to build and tidy the house prims.

Ann Otoole InSL

I wonder how the EU is going to deal with Facebook when the new rules take effect that explicitly ban what facebook does. Perhaps just block facebook from the entire EU? That seems to be the only effective way to protect citizens from unscrupulous american companies.

Bettina Tizzy

No.

Gumby Roffo

I should have waited to post because this explains it much better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg&feature=related

Loki

I dont have any face book friends who play SL, all my SL friends are on twitter. Sl residents by nature will choose the option that does not link their Avatars to their real identity.

Nika Talaj

"Your Facebook friends will see that you’ve ‘liked’ or shared this content, but they will not see your Second Life username"

Isn't this distinction rather silly? Let's say some RL friend picks up on your SL interest ... won't the first thing they ask be: "What's your avatar name?".

I see very clearly why having residents link to RL facebook profiles works terrifically for LL. I'm very much in the dark as to how it would enhance most residents' real or second lives.

If LL were forced to limit their userbase to only those people who wanted to link their RL and SL identities, there would be no more lag inworld because it would generally be empty. SL remains a fabulous place to escape to, to EVADE one's real life.

Ezra

Not everyone minds their Facebook friends knowing their Second Life going ons, or who their avatars are. I really don't get the outrage unless everyone was FORCED to have a Facebook account, reveal their real identities or whatever else.

While I don't really get the total, unfettered, complete anonymity a lot of folks want on the internet, I respect it, but something like encouraged word-of-mouth via Facebook isn't a breach of privacy for anyone that doesn't want to participate in it. Pay it no mind and it costs you nothing.

That said, obviously its not really effective given Second Life isn't growing right now. I'd feel better about sharing Second Life with my Facebook friends if I knew they wouldn't quit somewhere between wearing a box of clothes on their right hand and figuring out how to stop a dance, as has often been the case before. The user experience needs to improve a great deal still for me to feel comfortable inviting any but the most tolerant and geekiest of my friends.

Molly Montale

I suggest that Amanda read why Facebook is not popular in Japan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/technology/10facebook.html?_r=1

https://www.socialtimes.com/2011/01/the-slow-boiled-frog-why-japan-says-no-to-facebook/

"They have all the same tools of Twitter and Facebook at their disposal, but the interest in showcasing oneself is minimal."

Amanda Dallin

I don't' see any need for the anger here. LL is just trying to use FaceBook to get more customers just like many other companies. Of course its not the best way to get info on SL. That's just PR speak for please bring your friends. I won't be using it but I don't use FB anyway. The point is not to communicate with your SL friends but to communicate with friends who might come to SL.

I don't use twitter either but i can see where that would be a more popular option to link that in world.

Qie Niangao

It's helpful that some folks are willing to perform all the Facebook chores for the rest of us. It's not really all that effective as a marketing tool for Second Life, but it will pull in a few new customers.

Facebook was the biggest Next Big Thing to happen for several quarters, several quarters ago. And it may remain the darling personal communications medium for several generations (like the telephone) or several years (like MySpace), but for however long it's where the people are, it must be fed useful commercial messages.

Luckily we have enough voluntary Facebookers to feed the beast so the rest of us don't have to get involved. I appreciate their efforts.

Fogwoman Gray

My only objection to the whole rigamarole with FB is that the lab should be focusing on making inworld communication tools for their current customers functional before they go haring off into FB land.
Amanda - Inworld Events Search SHOULD be "the best place to find out about cool things going on in Second Life, and get the inside scoop on inworld events" - but it is not, it is BROKEN
Amanda - Inworld IMs, Notecards, and Notices SHOULD be "the best place to find out about cool things going on in Second Life, share ideas, and get the inside scoop on inworld events" - but they are not, they are BROKEN

Sending people to FB is not how you fix broken infrastructure. And it is not how you show tired and frustrated customers that you are "listening".
And I am still pissed you called me a "Resi".

Markus Breuer (Pham Neutra)

Well, its easy as 1 - 2 - 3 :)

1) Second Life is on a declining curve, lately
2) Facebook is still on the upswing
3) The losers want to join "the winning team"

Second Life is a very social platform, but the technical oriented team driving SL never got the "social tools" right.

Now Facebook - like it or not - is overtaking the internet. Already some 25% or so (the reported numbers vary) of internet traffic is happening inside Facebooks walls. And this is still growing rapidly. Every marketeer knows - or is being told - that Facebook is HUUUUGE and important.

So, its only logical that the PR dep't of a struggling platform of SL tries to connect themselves with a winner like that. The only problem ... Facebook and Second Life follow extremely different platform/product philosophies. They just "don't match". Facebook's attitude towards (non) privacy vs. Second Life's focus on anonymous accounts is just one prominent example. There are many others.

But when have such technical "mere technical details" ever mattered to PR people? ;-)

Simeon Beresford

So Facebook is better than Second life and its website. thanks for letting us know.

Laetizia 'Tish' Coronet

Facebook is Web 1.0. The Forum is Web 0.5. Why is it that these people are pushing us further and further away from the cutting edge?

Eva Ryan

As someone pointed out to me, riding on the heels of FB would be a bad business venture.

"Facebook is going to become the 'myspace' by 2015, the 'friendster' by 2020 and 'aol' beyond that. If we were going to get on the highway to hell, we should at *least* get onboard something that had a future." -Desmond Shang

Arcadia Codesmith

"However, Amanda Linden also said, she understands that some Residents resist Facebook, and that's fine"

The Residents understand why Amanda Linden resists the will of the people, and that's fine.

Feel free to experiment. That's what a Lab does.

But if you're abdicating the community-building to Facebook, I have a hard time working out why exactly we need Second Life at all.

Rawst Berry

What about adding a mailbox so we can send messages to an inbox thats accessable both inworld and on the dashboard, like Facebook and every mmo in the world already has? (Not just notecards, which are poorly organized.) It is such a blatantly simple feature, and yet we don't have it..

And what about changing groups so that notices last longer, or the ability to add pages, so that groups can become resources for information instead of the current joke they are?

It is not fair to make a platform that feels very incomplete, and then tell people "oh but you can use THIS website over here to share information." LL needs to make the sharing/searching/communication tools within SL itself.

On the other hand, I think Hamlet has overhyped Facebook... I went and looked at the page, all of the posts were about events and places already in Showcase/destination guide, and the news seemed the same as from blog posts.

shockwave yareach

My Facebook is for RL contacts with RL friends. I do not use it and will not use it for anything else. The last thing I want is for Facebook to have another "error" and allow everything I buy and everything I do in SL to become common knowledge to my preacher... who may not comprehend that I don't visit "Frida's Lube and Sex Shop" in real life, but only as part of a video game.

brinda allen

Not only no....
HELL NO!

My count might be a litle off but, I counted perhaps 30 comments with 1 yes and 1 maybe.
28 really clear NO's, and those from a lot of people I respect, some of those that were here in Secondlife long before I was.

Mr. Au... give it up.

Hamlet Au

"28 really clear NO's"

On the other hand, Brinda, 36 people have "Liked" this post on Facebook. :)

Arcadia Codesmith

You can get 36 likes on Facebook with a post about your bunions.

Serendipity Seraph

The main problem I have with this is that it is LL attempting to fix its many shortcomings by riding on the coattails somehow, I don't think they really have any good idea how, of Facebook. I also have an issue with the occasional SL trial balloon to link RL identity much more transparently to SL identity. It is not a matter of particular angst but of freedom to define oneself and as many selves as one pleases without having to link said other self-creations to the physical world identity. I believe that is an important and valuable thing to have and will fight hard to not see it go away.

But I am not the best person to ask on these things as I am quite tired of SL and LL actions. I am not tired of virtual worlds but of this particular virtual world. I am tired of paying 4 - 5 times as much for equal or less than equal land and for many artificial restrictions. I am tired of SL slow slow responses to feature requests, broken group chat, broken search, spotty dependability and claims that they owe us, those who created all but the raw infrastructure value nothing, not even a reasonable guarantee to back up our content well enough that we can depend on it or have any recourse if one day it all disappears. The only thing that keeps me in SL is friends and loves their and a larger economy. But these things become less important as alternatives grow in viability and friends become fed up and willing to move.

Raul Crimson

I'm not Anti-Facebook, but i would not share some likes in Facebook only because my RLfriends are none of them in Second Life.

Also is kinda... let's say sad, Linden Lab considers Facebook as "the best way" to find information about Second Life, that just means Linden Lab failed on the try to build a reliable social network. Is ok to consider Facebook as a way, but as the best way?

And ColeMarie... i know nobody is forcing nobody, people is just expressing his disagreeance, that's not hostility, people may agree or disagree, that doesn't make nobody a sheep.

Cio Koba

Make an in world facebook/twitter, that would be it..

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