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Wednesday, January 18, 2012

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Tateru Nino

I'm not sure it's feasible to judge the growth or decline of active users of all opensim grids combined by the performance of just one opensim grid.

ShanePaul Benazzi

Let me just start to ask the monitors of today; what is growing any way? I am pretty sure the content of what is not growing takes position in a certain value. Quality vs Quantity.
Newspapers are not growing, car sellings dont, economics dont, goverments dont, hell...what more ? Right...its time to see and look otherwise on things. Communities and new ways of economics dont need numbers any more. Its need a quality check! Its excactly what i do at this very moment...and for me it brought me some good perfomances. Its time to wake up...and to whats in it, not what its looks like. You can find me on several grids..monitoring a bit deeper then the content of this article.

biffingbiff

I'm not sure that moving Bryn's thing to OSGrid would be a bad idea. The point that it would be exposed to a smaller audience really isn't valid in this case. Given that OpenSim is free, it would seem that content would drive traffic.

Eddi Haskell

It is true that Second Life clearly beats its open competitors in terms of users. This is Linden Lab best rationale for keeping the cost of land so high and the cost of participation in Second Life free if you do not want to become a premium member.

However, sometime this year, if current trends persist, the number of OpenSim Regions- growing at 4% a month according to Hypergrid Business -- will exceed the number of Second Life Regions which are declining slightly.

Hamlet (who does all of us an enormous service by keeping this blog so pertinent) and NWN readers, apologies for linking to my own blog here, but I provide the numerical analysis. Not sure it is good form for me to do this:

http://eddihaskell.blogspot.com/2012/01/breaking-news-opensim-combined-regions.html

Now, although the number of users, as Hamlet points out, is not indicative of potential overtaking of Second Life, I worry about a domino effect -- and the perception that Linden Lab is failing as a business concern with its strategy for Second Life. I worry about a stampede out of Second Life if this were to happen- Second Life "beat" by a combined open competitor.

And the only way for Linden Lab to combat this is to change its revenue model and lower the price of land ownership which is 400% of more of the price of OpenSim regions. And Linden Lab is losing precious time in not doing something about this now.


Matthew Leach

What do most people do in Second Life? Buy things and meet people? In OpenSim regions there are far less 'things' and often no money. With less people, there is less of a draw for others who want to socialise. The numbers aren't surprising really.

The types of users that OpenSim will pull from SL though are groups of friends who want to build their own environment, and serious users. Educationally we're moving to hosting our own sims that we just fire-up as needed.

Neither seem to be in trouble yet. I think a comment on a previous post, where the reduction in SL land was due to increased use of the market place over stores, was probably accurate.

Metacam Oh

The only thing keeping people from going from SL to Open Sim is the SL user base. Users don't want to go to Open Sim because there is only a fraction of the content, so its a catch 22. Regular users don't go because they don't want to walk around like Ruth again, and content creators don't go because its hours of work to getting started on a new grid when there are hardly enough users to justify, so you have a vicious circle. That and the fact that most grids, aside from Reaction Grid are just trying to be Second Life Jr. But like I said it is the user base, and Linden Lab needs to realize that even despite all their daily screw ups, their customers still remain loyal. However they continually look the other way, always searching for the golden ticket, a million more users etc etc, but while doing so, virtually ignore the ones they do have now.

The people make SL what it is, and once they leave for Open Sim, its all over.

Rin Tae

OpenSim still has a few hurdles to take that I am not sure have been adressed that well in the past. One of them being of course the knowledge about it since many people seem to have a hard time to beleive in technological advancment and still think that since they have been buggy and unstable in 2008 they are just the same today ... even SL stability increased over that period of time ...

But anyway, the bigger hurdle is, that the one big premise of OpenSim (cheep and/or free land) is the one that would need the knowledge to set it up. And this is something I guess many people would fear to do since they does not know anything about this sort of things or know so little that they call for help in isntalling any program they run on their computer. SL is easy compared with this since it runs with jsut the client ... so one big thing for OpenSim to do would be not only to advertise but to make a 'download and run without extra knowledge' version of virtual land.

This would bring in many more people since if I look at the pictures and see the numbers then I got to think that it means something that LL should better start looking at. If a relatively small number of people manage to make the OpenSim grids grow in sim-count then this means that there is a huge demand for virtual land and people want to use it.

Imagine what a population of the size of SL would do if given access to so much land. the growth rate would I guess quickly make the providers of this look for ways how to add more and more servers .. and even when I consider the idea of the importance of constant growth in modern economics not only silly but actually even dangerous and some sort of fetish that some people believe in despite logic, proof and better judgment ... in this case a lot of growth seem to be a very real outcome. And that mean a bigger market and more people.

It is of course one interpretation of the given numbers and I admt to not know as much about OpenSim as I should when making such statements, but if a smaller number of people generates such a growth in regions then why does a bigger number of people on SL is not doing the same?

With the assumption that the user demographic is similar the only thing that comes to mind is, that the people on SL can't afford it because the price is way too high and that they would just behave the same as the people on OpenSim if they could.

And, and that is something LL is for sure happy about, in a large part they don't know enough about OpenSim .... yet.

Pathfinder

@Rin

"so one big thing for OpenSim to do would be not only to advertise but to make a 'download and run without extra knowledge' version of virtual land."

It doesn't get much easier than this: http://simonastick.com

Check out that site. You can have your own 4-region OpenSim grid running on your own computer (or USB key) in about 5 min.

And with a little tweaking, you can connect your grid to the hypergrid so other people can visit. I've tried it, and it's pretty simple: http://becunningandfulloftricks.com/2012/01/09/my-diva-standalone-opensim-grid-pathlandia/

foneco zuzu

Well i'm on Os grid since friday!
All i can say is that i needed a place where my love could build, and still do all we love on Sl.
So i just downloaded Imprudence, tried to no avail set up my island, ended renting a 45000 full region for USD 20 month!
Now i have 2 viewers open, and show and do all i want on Sl, while at same time start to see an amazing place grow as my love builds on Os grid.
in meanwhile explored without a crash, hypergrided to other grids, forgot about the minimized phoenix until some notice or im arrived on Sl.
in 2 days i had found less then 10 ppl on Os grid, but all i found helped me in a way or another (Dan and Fernando Oliveira, so many tks for the long waited times trying to understand why i couldn't host a region, Gennifer, so grateful to let us rent and have our dream for less then i tip on sl on a few days, for a full month, and all the others that helped in some way, just for the joy of having another 1 there!
So i feel i have the best of both worlds, even if i really loved to see:
Surfing waves on Os grid, a good car and bike, more good hair, skins (even if they have at least that i found, 10 lovely skins and 1 set of great eyes, only 1 good hair).
No matter, i have now a great mermaid ao, a fully functional open colar, cuffs, rlv enabled,
A 5000 inventory itens, lots of latex shinny stuff, some great poses;) and beds and...
I did my 1st skins, and even if no expert
i wonder what a good Skinner could giveto Os grid growth, if on the Wright plaza, the starting pack was as good as!!! But it is better then LL one, lol, still those who work just for the joy of wanting to see others using their creations, pls give Os grid a try, for once forget about Lindens, Usd, Eur, and just furnish a non profit mega Universe with more and more, cause all will be well used!

Pussycat Catnap

"What do most people do in Second Life? Buy things and meet people? In OpenSim regions there are far less 'things' and often no money. With less people, there is less of a draw for others who want to socialise. The numbers aren't surprising really."

This.

I mentioned this the other day somewhere, maybe here;

If you're on a human white avatar with little interest in fashion, Opensims are just fine.

But if you're anything else - its a crippling move.

The reality of SL and its clones is that we're not here to rez a prim, but to chat each other up. That fact disgusts a lot of dev-types, but its just human nature.

Before you get an art-sim to move, you've got to make it so the people who go there can 'look pretty.'

While SL and its clones -are- at their core about the entertainment venues such ad Bryn's art sim, the merchants who make the toys that make our avatars look pretty are still a very key part of the foodchain.

If you neglect either side, you spell disaster for your grid.

Anonymous

I too love Bryn Oh's art. And I loved all the other artists who once created in SL but have chosen to move along.

In real life, as an artist, I don't expect to be "supported" in my art.

I work, I create, I scramble to keep food on the table, but I don't expect to be supported.

IRL the majority of artists support themselves, sometimes badly, hence the phrase "suffering for your art" and "starving artist" and the truths they represent.

Sims can be paid for by renting out land, holding events, selling items, starting a group, many ways.

Sims - being property - are earned not given.

By now everyone should know There Ain't No Such Thing as a Free Sim (TANSTAFS).

Skylar Smythe

Exploring into the parahealth education sector and their enthusiasm for training clinicians in virtual domains, for counselling etc. It appears that momentum and level of acceptance for using virtual worlds in that manner is growing as non-profits look for economical alternatives to onsite training.

So with a ressurgence of interest in NPC training in virtual domains.. why the hell is Linden Lab not making it affordable for them to do business in Second Life? This would create real world jobs with peripheral support services in world.

Mr. Humble says that he is quite busy right now. It's my hope that they are cooking up an A-Game to turn this around. I remain passionate about virtual worlds... but losing faith each month in Second Life.

Skylar

Alazarin

I'm with Pussycat here. I had a look at InWorldz and was struck immediately by several things: First the only 'furry' avvies I could find were the good old Wingless Emoto set. I couldn't find anything remotely draconic. So it was pretty much be a human or a fox.

Second: No chance of porting SL content into InWorldz unless I went down the copybot path. Even just porting textures across was tedious and time-consuming. Never mind rebuilding stuff in InWorldz with 2 viewers open.

I may eventually move onto one of the OpenSim grids but it's not likely to be for quite a while.

foneco zuzu

Yes they are!
And dont get fooled, you can log and visit a expo on Os grid, and then just logoff and come back to Sl.
You ncan even do as me, that im on both places at same time, and dedicate my full atention to one, while keep an eye on the other, tonightit will be OS grid with my lobe till 4pms Sl, then Demolition derby races At R.I.R. racinf sim and after ending the night on any of them!

Maria Korolov

Hamlet --

You got the numbers a bit wrong:

http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2012/01/is-opensim-usage-falling/

shockwave yareach

And yet, the only rationale for staying in SL is the groups and the land that is already there. Every day, more sims go poof. Everyday, more people decide SL has lost too many of their friends, so they poof too. We are now at that critical tipping point in which the grid becomes so depreciated that the losses increase every single day. With prices as they are and people giving up on SL, even those of us with money into islands are asking why they are bothering to throw good money after bad. My own island chain is about to lose another island -- this will bring us down to 4 from our heyday of 10.

The SL of old was a freedom loving land where you owned property. The SL of today is a police state where LL owns everything, even the stuff you make. And the costs are just too high for what we get. So as people leave, the sims they paid for go. As the sims go, more people leave. As more people leave, more sims go. Lather, rinse, and repeat. We have now hit that tipping point and the decline from here on out will be steep and scary. Unless LL cuts prices by 1/3, that is. And since LL won't do that to protect their current business model, they will ride that model into bankruptcy, much as Kodak did.

foneco zuzu

But in the end all i know is:
If i want to be in peace, im on So grig with my love.
If i want to race, surf, ride a bike, go to a concert, show up my look, then i go to Sl.
And i understand that furries dont have too much content, just cause nobody dared to create it for free on So grid, so defy a good one to do a free furry avatar there.
Pony commnuity is there, SM one as well, simple plain ppl are there, so why cant furries be there as well?

foneco zuzu

And OS grid is non profit, how much any needs to state that?

foneco zuzu

Linden Lab killed Sl when they didn't understood that after a while ppl want to do more then just shop and spent Linden, and building is great, but the, and i have to say, insulting prizes asked for a sim on Sl, will never justify a investment there, unless for a few!
But we know that the problem is that Sl cant take more then 50000 at same time, its foundation, the hardware one, will not handle 500000 and 50000 sims, but Os grid can handle 500000 and 500000 sims.

foneco zuzu

Competition is the key, and if Sl still leads for now, perhaps one should wonder if that is a gooid thing nowadays?

foneco zuzu

We all saw, 1 weekend with not upfront fee, now imagine that and instead of Usd 250 month, 50 Usd month!
Instead of Marketplace buys, marketplace search to in world shops?
lag and all the bugs will still be there, but any can deal with that if they love Sl, just make those who love, stay there!

Ener Hax

interesting on user numbers - i also just tend to look at only land because that means a user sees it worth the trouble to have land (as opposed to a million users not spending or doing anything)

i also look at my sim-on-a-stick downloads as a growth indicator (about 6,500 last year versus zero the year before because it did not exist)

hands down, if you want traffic, Second Life has no equal and will stay that way for years to come

fortunately, we (my endeavor) don't need or want random traffic and that speaks to your point about highly specific use of OpenSim and not so much as an alternative to SL

Hamlet Au

Maria, I'm confused by your post -- the charts seem to clearly indicate total OpenSim monthly active usage is well below 10,000 right now, and has sharply dropped from mid-2011. Is that accurate?

Pussycat Catnap

"And yet, the only rationale for staying in SL is the groups and the land that is already there."

Somewhat. But not fully.

Yes inertia is driving this horse.

But I could say the same thing about PCs, as a Mac person. And people have been saying that since 1995... And yet still the "inferior" option thrives.

The thing is though - that's not the only reasons.

At this point, OSGrid is going the wrong way. SL is too... but OSGrid now lacks many features users have come to take for granted (to varying degrees):
1. Mesh.
2. Alpha Layers.
3. Multiple layers of texture worn on a single point.
4. Multiple attachments worn on a single point.
5. Searchable interests.
6. Web profiles with snapshot feeds.
7. FUI UI customization.
8. Relevancy search (say what you will, but for people who SEO their search, the last year has been an improvement).
9. Destination Guides / Events.
10. Marketplace (I'm the lone cat that hates it, the other million SLers seem to love it - as much as I shout into the wind about it, I'm sane enough to know nobody's listening).
11. Tattoo layers.
12. Ability to see script usage of self and parcel.

And more...

And everyday, the more side gets larger.

SL -is- overpricing itself. But OSgrid is just starting to 'smell like old people.' ;)

(/emote wonders if an install of OSGrid comes with a free mood ring and pet rock.)

Pussycat Catnap

"In real life, as an artist, I don't expect to be "supported" in my art.

I work, I create, I scramble to keep food on the table, but I don't expect to be supported.

IRL the majority of artists support themselves"

Most of us really don't need a full sim either. I recently moved my home in SL to a different part of mainland. In flying down from 4096m to the ground, to find the sweet spots where I could put a build platform and skybox without disturbing anyone else, I discovered one of my new neighbors is a fairly well known SL artist.

This artist has a basic 4096 or so lot (I think, that or a little bigger), and has just put up a series of galleries at varying altitudes.

Many artists could get away with just a spot here or there, hidden in the sky or out in the public on the ground - with their build set up for a theme.

This also works for sims. Get 10 to 20 artists together and go in on renting or buying a sim. Something many artists do in 'RL' - rent a studio together and set up a gallery on one end, a shop on the other, with canvases in the middle.

(if OSGrid / hypergrids do take off, the same could be said of a sim there. Better chance of exposure if you do an artist co-op, even on a $20/month OSGrid sim.)

Ignatius Onomatopoeia

I don't think the gradual movement of educators from SL to OpenSim will change this picture too much.

First, I don't see hundreds and hundreds of students coming in. The educators most likely to make the jump over will be risk-takers and early adopters. They'll bring them over in small bunches. I added 15 users to Jokaydia Grid last semester, for instance.

Any new student-users won't stick around. They didn't in SL, either: roughly 2% retention of my 100, and that was only for a few months after class. 0% from the 15 in OpenSim. They used premade avatars and it was for one simulation and assignment.

Second, there are now some good options beyond OpenSim or SL. Unity 3D as well as Reaction Grid's Jibe have been getting a great deal of praise from some heavy hitters from SL's education circle, including Ken Hudson/Hubble, whose work at Loyalist College, with Canadian border-guard training, will by years end move to Unity 3D and leave SL.

He announced this at our annual meeting of possible, probable, and preferable futures at a recent SL-based roundtable.

Graham Mills

Unity most definitely has its place but it requires a different skill set, one I would say that the average SL educator does not possess. It's also a mistake to judge OpenSim on the basis of OSgrid -- many great regions there, including an academic enclave, but ultimately it's a development grid with sims often run on home kit. Neither is OSgrid the only non-profit: NewWorldGrid is another, again with some great education builds. If you want to experience a really nice web-driven region/grid management interface you should checkout Dreamland Metaverse. Educators can create class default avatars and assign them to students in bulk by uploading a simple text file. There is also web-based management of OAR and IAR archive files which means you can change the appearance and use of a region in a minute or so. Kitely will doubtless have something similar shortly for those who don't want to keep regions running 24x7. It's a big and diverse OpenSim world out there...

Gaga

Pussycat, I really think you should spend some time in OSgrid or some other Opensim grid and actually learn about all the stuff you claim it has not got or can't do. Quality skins are plentiful and there is masses of good legal content both for free and for sale. It is SL that is smelling old and laggy and I suspect a lot of the die-hards and profiteers are loosing their shirts. Opensim can do enough of what SL can do and more stuff unique to their platform like mega-regions, hypergrid and variable regions as big as 256 times an SL region with no border crossing problems! Get real Pussycat, your propaganda don't wash. People are moving to the future. SL is yesterday's platform and way over priced!

Silverfox Rainbow

you'd be suprise how much opensim grids have caught up to SL - OS does have most of the things featured on that list and they also do have mesh working as well, V3 viewers work pretty ok on there as well - can run SL and os at the same time both in firestorm with little or no problems, have to remember opensim is still in Alpha, as alot of it is being reworked by volunteers, so they well keep working on it

Masami Kuramoto

"But the smart money is that since 2009, the number of people regularly involved with OpenSim is less, not more."

No, the smart money is that more people are using Hypergrid now. Which means they log into their own standalone sims and then teleport from there to any other grid. There is no way to count these people since they don't need accounts on any of the larger grids.

"For example, when I noted that Bryn Oh's Second Life artwork had lost its patron, some suggested that she should move her creations to OpenSim. But doing so would drastically shrink her potential audience, not grow it. And because OpenSim doesn't have a virtual currency as viable as Linden Dollars, make it even more difficult for her to raise funds (and paying fans) to sustain her artwork."

If Bryn hosted her work in OpenSim, she likely wouldn't need to raise funds in the first place. And your assumption that it would shrink her potential audience is just plain wrong. For the same money that it takes to keep one of her sims in Second Life, she could have 15 copies of that sim hosted in the cloud. That doesn't just mean more space but also more concurrency: 15 times more people would be able to enjoy her artwork at the same time. As a bonus she would have full control of her content, and her virtual exhibition wouldn't be tarnished by Second Life's bad reputation.

foneco zuzu

I need to say:
Alfa lawers are on So grid (and is apeak about Os grid as is where ihave my si, but hyper jumo is as easy and that means i could ealy tlp to other grids (and did in fact that).
Skins, well i found some nice ones, still believe there can be found much more, but i did better, i did my own and my lovers, and so far the reaction is not as bad as i thought:)
Mesh is there, i just use imprudence and don't really care to see it, but i got already a few mesh itens that i cna see if i log with a mesh viewer (Need to see if AA and AF is a problem os Sl or meshes implementation overall).
A sunset on our sim as as lovely as one in our Sl homestead, So Os grid is no longer that Sl at 2007!
As a matter of fact , if you can try to compare, Sl is New Your and os grid a small town, but that town is connected to others, each with thousands of sims, and gathering places exist, where all can chat and sahre their experiences!
But that should be where Sl could really make a point, to be the gathering point to other grids, as the Big metropolis that would make ppl travel to and from their homes!

Offer land to merchants that will sell only in world!
Make marketplace redundant to buy but easy to find and point to the shops in World!
Fix bugs that are already fixed on other grids, make Sl use a nice experience to all!
make sure users know that it can look amazing with the correct hardware, au pair with any other console or Pc game, but can also be used by laptops and lower end computers!
Or then at least admit once and for all.
Sl is for a few, the ones that can handle top notch computers, the ones that can pay Usd 1000 plus usd 250 month and all the rest just bear with it or go play other games!
That Sl is and will ber always a niche!
Any way, fix the bugs, lower tiers and hope that recession in 1st World will be replaced (as it is already, see the nr of Brasilian users) by the Countries that will lead the World soon!

shockwave yareach

Foneco: I agree that both inworld and website stores need to be present. But having ads in the marketplace but requiring me to TP to your inworld store will guarantee I won't buy it. If I'm looking for a pair of blue jeans, I need them then and there. I won't have time to tp my naked self to your store to buy the jeans.

My thinking on the problem is that the marketplace should have a limit on the number of items in it based on the size of the land your magic box sits in. Simply divided the number of prims that parcel can have in it, divide by 30 and add 10. A tramp with no land can get started with 10 things to sell whereas someone with a 8K store can sell 62+10 items in the marketplace.

foneco zuzu

Valid point, still with delivers failing, you could wait a lot naked;)
and to be sure, items would have to be uploaded and sold on Sl grid, not any other, only rights was, a new one, c/m/t/H (copy or and mod or and transfer or and hypegrid, meaning those itens could be used and or moved on other grids as well, but never imported via them to second life nor used there!

Yuukyuu (InuYasha Meiji)

I agree with the last two comments. Opensim is lacking the best content creators of sl. It is all because of greed. Greed isn't in itself bad. But with all content in opensim being free, they want to make that extra linden rather then see more enjoying their effort.

Personally, I always attempted to keep my prices down in sl, because I enjoy knowing others like to use my work.

As said before, keeping apprized to user counts is hard in opensim. You would have to visit every opensim out there and add up the user count from each to see how many have gone the way of opensim.

OMG I have so many things to comment on, I don't know where to start. This thread was only today brought to my attention.

1. Meshes exist in opensim, and where working even before LL released them in some working manner.

2. Opensim has had alpha layers for as long as I have known opensimulator.org existed.

3. The multiple texture layers work, but seemingly viewer related. and multiple atachment points work for me in Phoenix viewers, though some other viewers may not see them at the proper point.

4. Like most things taken for granted in SL the extra features in opensim are modules. Search is one of those. If the person running the region hasn't installed a proper search then it won't work. They had a good search, but when SL and the compatible viewers started sending searches to a web search, opensim now needs to have a module written to use a php file to search the database (Mysql) to do searches, and no longer use the older way.

5. Like search, the old profiles still work, but the web based one needs a php file once again.

6. FUI UI customization, again sounds like a viewer issue to me.

7. Ta-too layers DO exist.

8. On my 49 region opensim grid, like most opensim grids you CAN hit the CTRL - SHIFT - 1 it does show all the regions stats.

9. The firestorm replacement for A.R.C. is the Avatar, Health menu, show render weight menu option.

As for Pusycat Catnip's other complains, If everything is free, why are you complaining about having no money??

We do have groups, again a moduel. If the person running the grid or region, you logged onto, just hasn't figured out how to run it yet, it might not be there. I have installed it on mine, and it works.

I even have a fully fuctional voice going on my grid. Just like SL, but no voice morphing.

Lack of furries avatars. HEH, I don't see a problem. snicker. but blame the greedy furry creators for wanting a butt load of lindens for every furry they make. It could be a nice free add for their ability. People will see who made it, and might by one of the costly products in SL because of it.

As for opensim smelling of old people, because opensim is still in ALPHA. you understand what that means don't you. It is always changing right now. Trying to improve it, they have a whole new physics engine that has been ing improved on and tweaked to make it react more realistically. Making more changes to it and altering many .ini file. It takes experience with C#, MySQL database, some php, and networking skills on many platforms to understand most of it. It also helps to have some XML experience. Not always something to teenie boppers gets these days.

But once all that is worked out, then we need skilled artist to do building, sculpting, scripting.

Because people like Pussycat look at something once in a long while and use old info, my grid isn't open to everyone. Only a very few close freinds. I have images on my web page and a few incomplete links.

Before I open my stand alone grid not connected to OSGrid's assett server, I am going to wait till I have more built, scripted and such before opening it all up.

I don't want to open only to find someone who hasn't been on in a year or so tells people not to bother, because the year before I had nothing but one small village created so far.

http://ryukyu.dnsdojo.com/
Web sites with images of my grid on the home page
.

Pussycat Catnap

If viewer 3 is fully working on OSGrid's that's news to me. All I've been reading is a push for old, outdated toolsets like viewer 1 / Imprudence. Such toolsets, if kept, will soon result in incompatible worlds once SL removes the old inventory API (scheduled for this month).

Content is key... and those 'furry avatar makers' really are the ones driving cutting edge content in avatar design. If you think they're 'greedy' for asking for $3 to $4 for an avatar they spend a month of labor making, you're going to have trouble paying even Chinese sweatshop wages..

Is the 'mesh' on OSGrid compatible with that on SL? Will it still be once Qarl's deformer goes in? That will be a big test right there.

Are the multi-attachment points compatible with SL's? Or using the old Emerald style (the note above about Phoenix makes me wonder).

If you're developing some great grid, but keeping your doors shut to stave off 'opinions' - that's only going to help re-enforce the opinion that OSGrid is stagnant. People would need to see change, and change happening, to have a counter opinion.

I'm always willing to update my opinions, if shown where to see something different.

If you think I'm a stick in the mud 'hater' - you've only got to go read some older posts of mine about Breedables and even Mesh and compare them to newer comments once I saw changes.

James OReilly

Of course Opensim interest is declining...

Opensim hits new low on Google Trends http://www.google.com/trends/?q=opensim&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

50% drop of Google search interest in 3.5 years.

Wanna see it for Minecraft, Second Life, Opensim, Android, iPad?

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=minecraft,+second+life,+opensim,+android,+ipad&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Yuukyuu (InuYasha Meiji)

My grid isn't going to stay closed for ever. I want to see more updates to opensim first, as well as have more built to offer more to do and have fun with. One update I want to see is the completion of their physics engine. It is being worked on. It is very math intensive. They want the physics to be more realistic then SL. Servers who can handle it can turn on an option that I have only been able to run about four days before needing a restart. It allows people to walk and touch sculpies how they are shaped. It means no more bounding boxes.

With that in physics, I can make my trees solid, and people run in the woods would actually collide with the tres they are trying to run past. Branches they could climb and so on.

So I don't allow others who have long first opinions that seemingly stay forever. You are different then many out there who don't even bother to check in again.

I have a lot of land to move, sculpties to make and a full blown full sized model of Shuri Castle to build. At the same time working in SL on my own land and helping others.

Keeping friends happy and taking care of the results of many years of insulin dependant diabetes all at the same time.

Since I don't make my own meshes as of yet. all I know is they are compatible with .dae files exported as COLLADA compatible. Using COLLADA or blender to do it.

I hate viewer 2 and 3, love Phoenix Firestorm. Many options to turn off features I hate about viewer 3.

There are some points to the viewer 3 and Firestorm that needs fixing. No such thing as a nick name, yet, in opensim. So when trying to see who owns or build creator name, garbage characters may show in the place. Simple fix, either opensim will add the field, or turn off using the nick names in the viewer.

Firestorm does allow you to upload your meshes now.

I liked Imp, but they seem to be in a lul, it happened when they lost there project manager and choose a replacement. I forgive them, since it might be a bit of a learning curve for the next one. I guess it is a wait and see situation.

And if you looked at what I said, greedy isn't exactly bad. but too greedy is a problem. personally I never found furries as on the edge builders or scripters.

Just my opinion.
.


Yuukyuu (InuYasha Meiji)

The big target point seems to be lost here. The topic is: OpenSim Gaining Regions... But Not Gaining Many Users.

This isn't a major problem or real sign of if it will last or live on.

It is still in Alpha. It is code and trials for debugging purposes. The project is completely in flux. First they want to get close to Secondlife, and make improvements to the code for an eventual better place.

One example is where many LSL programmers have been asking for some extra commands not available in LSL for better coding. Those who understand and use LSL know that many commands start will ll, suck as llSay. There is a huge list of new added OS commands. They where added to the LSL coding used in the updated LSL language. You can do more in opensim with it.

At the same time that improvements have been made, there are some things you can still do in SL that opensim hasn't caught up with.

Until Opensim gets into beta it is still being worked on, added to, and as it goes more possibility for changes. Things are still being requested, voted on, and added. That thing you don't like about it now, may change in a few months or so.

It is a matter of being there and testing to see what you like and don't and let them know if you think it needs something extra, or needs to take out something. This is Alpha.

I personally would love to be there as these decisions are made. And see where it goes.

James OReilly

It's about software development + MARKET DELIVERY...

For software development people, please check: CMMI for Development (CMMI-DEV), v1.3 was released in November 2010. It addresses product and service development processes http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/reports/10tr033.cfm

For market delivery people, please check: CMMI for Services (CMMI-SVC), v1.3 was released in November 2010. It addresses guidance for delivering services within an organization and to external customers http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/reports/10tr034.cfm

Reference to the combination of AIDA marketing approach and using Google Trends for virtual world trend assessment... http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2067665/The-Decision-Making-Funnel-Stage-2-Interest

James OReilly

If you run a barber shop, you want potential customers to gain attention, interest, and desire for a hair cut, then walk into the barber shop and order a haircut, and then sit on the barber chair to receive the hair cut... that's the process. As soon as interest drops, something is off-track...

foneco zuzu

Well, I logged with Phoenix in 5 seconds and now i can use my favourite viewer (The non Mesh version) to explore both grids!
Btw, I tried a few V3 tpv's, Rlv, Niran's latest, Captnip, Dolphin latest versions!
In all i noticed, thaty V3 ui is really much better then any Ui before, even v1!
In all i noticed, the poor quality of image when compared to Phoenix non mesh or Imprudence non mesh both running at 32AA and 16hqAF.
But all manage of course due to the use of 16AA and only 4AF, average fps higher at 512 or 1024 draw distance (a few limit the draw distance to 512 max) with both shadows enabled (And how the shadows suck bad on Sl lol)then Phoenix with my settings!
Still if one thing i found, was that the mouse lock left alt+left mouse, works on phoenix, and perhaps for long, so one more reason to keep using it, and pls, stop saying V1 viewers are dead, None that the Lab will do will end their use, so why keep saying that?

foneco zuzu

And for once, come to Os grid, and see for yourslef, being there and on sl and I must say, no matter the lack of content, i have already a sim that is as lovely and manages to give to me and my love, the same feeling as in our homestead on Sl!

vicky

Hi

What about the fact that people may be going to OSgrid BECAUSE there are less people?

SL lags a lot.

Also, ever considered the fact that some people don't like the social network nor having to pay for land etc

It's true that SL has the most stuff, but it's all about money making.

Both SL and OS have their own different limitations.

I guess it depends what you want, I don't see any point in making OS into SL doesn't that defeat the point. Different strokes for different folks.

Justin Ireman

I find these kind of articles interesting but also a bit misleading.

I have been in sl for 3 years now, in fact I had my rezz day only yesterday (10th August) But I have also been in OSGrid for just over 2 years. OSGrid is now my home, I have 5 sims running on a dedicated data-centre server which I run and manage myself.

I have noticed more and more people coming into OSgrid from SL, and when I chat to them, most tell me that they have come away from SL because they are fed up with the drama, and the lag, in other words, it is the people, or the type of person that frequents SL that is making them leave. Obviously this is only anecdotal, and may not apply in all cases.

I know when I left sl, and mostly I don't use SL any more, OSG is my home and grid of choice, I left because I was fed up with the high land prices of SL, and also the heavy handed way in which LL run and managed the grid.

As I run my sims myself on my own (rented ) server, I make up my own rules and ToS (terms of service) which apply on my sims. In effect, I have become "Linden Governor General" on my sims, this is part of the appeal. OSG is like the frontier, it provides freedom.

Some people may prefer the walled city of Second Life, with its police state run society by LL, its strict rules and ToS, but others (like myself) prefer the relative freedom of the "wild" frontier.

Just my two pennies worth.

Oink

Buyer-side Big Data + Google Trends outstrip Seller-side @MariaKorolov

http :// ht.ly/tbVXn

Oink

@MariaKorolov #Opensim Vanity Metrics Down >
- Active Users / Region -27.5% since May 2013
- Active Users / Registered Users -22.6% since Feb 2013

http :// ht.ly/sW9p5

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