Wednesday, February 06, 2013

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Welcome Second Ads: NWN Partner Providing Business Services & L$ Earning Games for SL Merchants & Users

Second Ads SL business

Second Ads is a Second Life-based developer of business services and games that's been operating in-world for 2 years, has 30,000 monthly active players for its games, and I'm proud to announce, is a media partner for New World Notes this month. When we considered taking them on, Iris and I were impressed by the polish and professionalism of what Second Ads offers SL sim owners and users, and their dedication at a goal we all share: growing Second Life's active user base, and coming up with new ways for sim owners to build visitor traffic and cover tier costs. Here's their game site, with games based around earning Linden Dollars, and here's their SL Marketplace page with their game products.

The company's goal, as I said, is to give SL landowners, merchants, and ordinary users new ways to interact, achieve, and above all, stay engaged in Second Life. As company spokesperson Amy Neville puts it:

"Not many people realize that Second Life actually has a huge number of new participants every day. Unfortunately many new players get quickly discouraged when they cannot earn Linden Dollars easily -- they need to become involved with something before they become active economic participants." So that's what their services provide, and that's why we're trying them out as an NWN sponsoring partner. I hope you give them a look.

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Qie Niangao

Good job: You've partnered with an adfarmer.

According to the adfarm policy there can be no more than fifty microparcel-based ads hosted by the same network. SecondAds may or may not violate that policy--we haven't completed the count yet--but through their microparcel-sited partners they very definitely violate another provision: no more than _one_ microparcel ad from the same network per sim.

They may argue that technically it's their customer who is responsible for the violation. How can they help it that they're popular among scofflaws? I don't find that a very compelling excuse--especially not if they report ad counts that include those infringing installations.

Adeon Writer

Hi Hamlet, are you aware this is what your partner does to mainland?

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/attachments/general-sl-discussion/36008d1360249098-hamlets-adfarmer-ties-my-cya-oppeano-8-boards-.jpg

As someone who owns roadside land in Second Life, adfarmers absolute PAIN and I wish they'd stop ruining my enjoyment of SL. I've had to buy more land elsewhere in SL just so I wouldn't have to see it out my window every day.

Hamlet Au

I've asked Second Ads to address these comments here.

Adeon Writer

I've heard of SecondAds before, but I didn't draw the connection between them and what's going on in-world until Qie pointed it out. I was surprised too.

AmyNevilly Resident

SecondAds is NOT an adfarming business, or anything of the sort. We do not rent, own or operate a single plot of land on the mainland.

We believe advertising (in moderation) is a very valuable way for landowners to subsidise some of their tier costs. Our pay-per-click adboards provide a great way for landowners to do that without having to fill their land up with hundreds of unrented adboards.

If there are any publishers who are placing our adboards in more than 50 locations on the mainland (and I don't see any actual evidence of this) then they should be reported to Linden Lab and dealt with accordingly - we would wholeheartedly support that action

I would like to highlight that there will always be people in sl who use products or services inappropriately. Companies cannot be blamed for actions of individuals outside their control.

Qie Niangao

SecondAds has a list of locations right on their website. In fact, they claim to have the largest ad network. They can readily determine how many are on Mainland microparcels--and can't hide behind the bogus "publisher" title for the landowners: they own the *network*, they're responsible for keeping that network in compliance.

While checking how many adboards are on Mainland microparcels, they can easily find those that are on the same region. They would be well advised to have the adboard scripts check for that themselves, prior to activating.

That's especially true as long as they claim the "largest network" while including those sites in the count. And they can hardly claim ignorance of the sites because they boast of having "staff regularly patrolling ad venues to detect any suspicious activity or adboard placements that are unfair to advertisers."

Is it really fair to advertisers that they be associated with such practices?

AmyNevilly Resident

"While checking how many adboards are on Mainland microparcels, they can easily find those that are on the same region."

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal

You sound like an authority on this. Can you therefore point to the LSL function that can tell us if land is from the mainland or not?

Also, can you point out the LSL function that triggers when people un-rez an object so we can tell our servers with 100% certainty what is rezed and what is not?

If as you suggest we are to act as an unpaid second police force for Linden Lab (policing other avatars behaviour) surely they should provide content providers with the sufficient scripting tools to do this.

Iggy

"The company's goal, as I said, is to give SL landowners, merchants, and ordinary users new ways to interact, achieve, and above all, stay engaged in Second Life."

Forget advertising. LL should hire Second Ads to manage its customer relations.

Fritzfranz Fride

@Qui: Why dont you just do what LL recommends if you find an adfarm on Mainland ? Write an AR!
LL has to take care of that abuser, not SecondAds or you, i think.

@Adeon: in the case of what you photographed there may be a violation of the rule "only 1 advertisemet per user per sim". but honestly, i would prefer to look at a colorful advertising then at a grey wall or brown dusty earth in the background. this area is ugly anyway, whether with or without advertising... including the banlines that you pic doesnt show on the other side of the street.

What would it look like if those signs would be placed within a building. It would be allowed! Even if its a modern building with a glassfront ? How a script should check that out ?

And finally before someone writes an AR to Logitech i stop writing here, they created my keyboard!

Greetings Fritz

Qie Niangao

I'm more than happy to help reduce Mainland microparcel blight, so here's the information requested:

"Can you therefore point to the LSL function that can tell us if land is from the mainland or not?"

There may be an even easier way but I'd simply use http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetRegionCorner and have the server check if the coordinates are within continent bounds. To further simplify the task, the concern is for microparcels, 144sq.m. and below per Search listing criteria, so http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PARCEL_DETAILS_AREA can be used as a pre-screen.

The _very_ worst violators, the ones that _really_ damage advertisers' reputations, are Mainland microparcels set for sale; see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetParcelFlags to identify and get rid of those first.

Remember, however, that SecondAds has "staff regularly patrolling ad venues" so just look at the map.

"Also, can you point out the LSL function that triggers when people un-rez an object so we can tell our servers with 100% certainty what is rezed and what is not?"

That's not necessary for determining whether you have multiple active adboards on a sim. Surely the servers already know whether they're getting event reports from each location. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking . (This could also be determined locally with llRegionSay() at the cost of one llListen() per board, but maintaining an accurate server-side list of active adboards would seem necessary for reasons other than compliance.)

"If as you suggest we are to act as an unpaid second police force for Linden Lab (policing other avatars behaviour) surely they should provide content providers with the sufficient scripting tools to do this."

It's the business of an advertising network to comply with regulations on that business.

Even if there were no such regulations, an advertising network should want to take all measures necessary to protect the reputations of its advertisers.

AmyNevilly Resident

"This could also be determined locally with llRegionSay() at the cost of one llListen() per board"

"http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetRegionCorner and have the server check if the coordinates are within continent bounds."

I think you are forgetting that "noob scripts" can be anti-social too.....

You think that putting say 100,000 adboards on the mainland filled with such excessive scripts would be the act of a responsible company?

One of the reasons we're a successful company is that we weigh up the costs/benefits of different parts of our products.

It's very easy to poke a company using a photo. Meanwhile the vast majority of our adboards are used entirely responsibly:

https://d27fcql9yjk2c0.cloudfront.net/assets/4528869/view_large/sample1.jpg?1320270221

Wili Clip

Hello,

I am Wili Clip creator and owner of Second Ads and other gaming systems we run. Second Ads (Ad Network)advertising system is the oldest system and was created in year 2010.

It started as basic grid wide ad display system that I've been upgrading it ever since it was created. Its generally known that people try to abuse (hack) just any system and especially those that deal with money (ether real or virtual). I build my system with that in mind and every time when a new problem appears I find a solution and implement it (iterative and incremental development style). This ad network system has been running for more then 3 years now and has been upgraded many times to prevent people from abusing it in many different ways. And people have tried just everything and that just helped me to learn from them on how to improve the system. We've kept working on it...

Advertising brings us much smaller revenue compared to other systems we work on. We are lately all much more concentrated on evolving social network type of games that involve lindens, thousands of players and a simulation of commodity trading system (virtual economy).

I am proud that we managed to keep our advertising system (Ad Network) active with some important updates to prevent different click frauds. I am proud because this type of advertising helps SL economy (many people that do SL business - run services, communities, create content...). It is a system that has helped me to better connect with many virutal business people and a lot of SL business leaders.

No Second Ads isn't an adfarming service and we don't support any activity that would let harass other residents.

We do not own or control lands where SL Residents (land owners) place our adboards. Like on any Website based Ad Network an ad company providing service can't be liable for website content of publishers who place ad code on their site. If its not appropriate or it breaks any rules they terminate the service to such a publisher and notify law enforcement (in case it breaks law).

If our product is used (abused) for that purpose then (in this case it is also a violation of our terms of service) we will deny the service to an abuser (we will ban such user). We organize our staff to check for violatons and when we detect them we remove them from our system. One needs to realize that our staff's time is also limited because of hundreds of support queries that they're trying to take care of daily. I believe that they're doing their best.

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/attachments/general-sl-discussion/36008d1360249098-hamlets-adfarmer-ties-my-cya-oppeano-8-boards-.jpg

We've denied our service to that particular land owner SKF (shadowknight.falconer) and all adboards will not work for him anymore. This is the first case that someone attempted to abuse our ad network like that. Our Ad network is running over 3 years now and that has never happened before.

What AmyNevilly said is not entirely correct. We do have an ability to prevent people from doing that but until now we never saw anyone that would do that. I will be instructing my staff to check new adboards placed into system.

Successful people in Second Life business (most of those that have managed to make sustainable profit offering services or products based on SL) know that SL is a harsh environment to run a business and once you manage to go over obstacles and you solve problems there are always going to be new to solve.

I welcome the media partnership with NWN. As for the drama I can just say that drama always was and always will be happening in Second Life.

Owner of Second Ads
Wili Clip

elizabeth (16)

wili - "I welcome the media partnership with NWN. As for the drama I can just say that drama always was and always will be happening in Second Life."

wonder how long your media partnership going to last Wili. drama tends to follow those who run end games round the mainland rules. and dismiss anything mainlanders who actual live on these sims might say as drama

you running a adfarming business Wili. your business goal is that every wannabee adfarmer/gouger will get 50 of these boards from you. bc you argue that they, each and every avatar/account, is the network vendor not you

what you going to do Wili when 50 different avatar/accounts plonk a board on the same sim?

might want to get your "staff" to start checking the sale prices on the micro-parcels Wili that your "customers" are plonking the boards on

maybe Hamlet and his staff will as well


Qie Niangao

My only interest in this is the experience of Mainland owners and explorers, so I had a congratulatory response composed... and then I thought I better check.

"We've denied our service to that particular land owner [...] and all adboards will not work for him anymore."

Unfortunately this is not the case. In two sims where that microparcel owner had SecondAds devices, they are now removed. There remain, however, several other Mainland sims where the multiple adboards owned by that same individual are still present on the same microparcels, and the devices still serve collateral via servers "owned by CEO of Second Ads (wili.clip)".

(For those following along at home, http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/attachments/general-sl-discussion/36007d1360249098t-hamlets-adfarmer-ties-my-cya-albata.jpg is one of the sites that currently remain. There are others.)

Wili Clip

It takes up to 24 hours for adboards in question to stop receiving ads from the server.

Land owner SKF (shadowknight.falconer) has been banned and blacklisted in our system.

Wili Clip

A post on SLUniverse forum was posted exposing a land owner SKF (shadowknight.falconer) owner of micro parcels group who has abused our system and placed our networked adboards on several micro sized parcels.

This is the first case in 3 years since our ad network is running that someone did that on mainland as micro parcels. We've disabled all adboards for that user through our server, blacklisted him (our server should stop sending ads to those boards in within 24 hours).

If our product is used (abused) for that purpose then (in this case it is also a violation of our terms of service) we will deny the service to an abuser (we will ban such user).

I've provided a tool to my staff and instructed them to check every single adboard placed in SL to ensure that all people who use our ad network system on their lands are in compliance with Linden Lab rules created for Ad Network (distributed advertising) systems. We're also in process of implementing stricter procedure for obtaining our networked adboards to avoid such incidents in future.

Please if you know for any other case of someone using (abusing) our Ad Network on mainland for such purposes in current time let us know. Send me an IM to Wili Clip in SL or use our support ticket system at:
http://www.secondads.com/helpdesk/

We will immediately remove them from our network.

Owner and creator of Second Ads
Wili Clip

Betsy

My comment was removed.

This is not journalism but a private controlled blog.

My comment was not offensive -- it was my opinion you removed poorly because you disagreed with it.

Betsy

Silly "spell" check -- it is purely of course

Qie Niangao

Just a note confirming that the adboards are now gone from the Mainland microparcels that were at issue, following a pleasant chat with a helpful SecondAds associate.

Also this morning I ran through the list of adboard locations posted on the SecondAds website and, although I can't claim my simple process could detect every possible violation, I did not find any other abuse.

I appreciate SecondAds' cooperation in this effort to protect the Mainland experience.

elizabeth (16)

\o/

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