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Friday, March 08, 2013

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Shockwave Yareach

if they AREN'T physical, then no resale is permissible.

Damien Fate

The same arguments came up for the last Arcade round too (which I took part in).

In my opinion, once you've played my machine and got my item, you can do what the hell you want with it. I've always thought of copy/no-trans items that way.

Cajsa Lilliehook

Frankly, from the difficulty people have getting into The Arcade a full week after its opening, it's clear that the Yard Sales are not detracting from sales. The parcel is full all the time and people are buying and buying and buying.

This debate has been hashed to death over in plurk, but one point has not been made. Some designers have complained that if their items can resell for L1500 when they are only L100 in the Gacha, then they should are losing money by selling them at L100. That would be true if there was a single transaction, but the whole point of Gacha is they count on gambling fever taking over and people spending L500 to get some rare item that only cost L50, but took 10 tries to win. That rarity give the item a cachet that it would not have if sold in the store.

Take any of the popular "rare" items from the Gacha and imagine them selling them at their stores for L1500. They would not sell. They might be able to charge L300 for them, maybe even L500 but with Gacha then can incite people into spending L1500 or more depending on how bad their luck is.

The merchants in the Arcade are selling far more than they would if their items were in their stores, with buyers incited by the atmosphere and the game. It seems it is not enough for some of them that people buy 20 items to get one. That kind of avarice is unbecoming and makes their stores and their items undesirable to me.

Morgana Hilra

Personally, I think that trading, and "at cost" selling is Ok..
However, hiking up a price or even uncutting prices are unfair to the designer.
It is not a matter of explaining WHY I feel the way I do.. it is just my personal opinion.
The trade part, is what gacha IS.. it always has been...

either way, I LOVE gachas!

2013

Hopefully Damien's comment will put a end to this arguement that happens every 3 months

Dani Riaxik

Exactly Casja, the designers are selling hand over fist more than they would in their main-stores a point that seems to get lost in this argument. Its pretty simple logic; if I buy something from Walmart and decide I don't like it I can sell that item at a yard sale for the price I want or feel is fair. I can also hop on EBay or Craigslist to resell it, as these are companies that have made millions off this simple concept. Why is it hard to grasp this in a virtual world? The creators have rights and so do the consumers.

CronoCloud Creeggan

I don't do Gacha, I don't do Hunts.

I just want to be able to go to an event, get the items I want without the luck-of-the-draw or searching a huge store, and get out.

In fact is hunt participants were to put their hunt item at the front of the store for L$10...I would actually participate in some hunts (Like the steampunk ones) and buy it to save the trouble of searching. You know how Vita's Boudoir, puts their lucky chair seasonable freebies in vendors besides the lucky chair for a small reasonable price? Well I usually get one from the chair and then just pay for the rest.

I don't consider Gacha to be consumer friendly if I have to pay for a bunch of other items that I don't want to get the one I do.

In fact I dislike the concept of event specific items. a friend of mine has a fantastic ricielli jacket set that was at TDR that I can't get now. I actually don't want to go to laggy events...we use a virtual world with a web-based marketplace...location based events...well they're not really taking advantage of the plusses of SL. Sure I like some of them, but I sometimes think that there's event overkill and that they are used instead of good marketing.

But I am an oldbie crankypants

Harper Beresford

If I could get into the Arcade, I would gladly purchase directly from the vendors, but I can't. I have met tons of people who have pumped 5-10K into the machines to get what they wanted (while they sit there plugging up the sim so I can't get in--ha). I imagine those creators are making plenty.

Breedables makers don't complain that their creations are resold for massive amounts more than what was paid for the initial object or the scripts to keep it "alive." Breeding is a form of gambling too.

By naming something "rare," you're assessing a rarified value to it. Trading or selling, it's all commerce. The designers who see their stuff go for the highest price should take the bragging rights, in my opinion.

Petr Vanbeeck

your slurl to the event it bad.

Petr Vanbeeck

sorry - it puts you under the boardwalk

Adeon Writer

If it's no copy, my opinion is you have every right to resell it even if the original creator says otherwise.

This is an opinion I hold on anything that is non-duplicative, like all physical objects.

If the gatcha sellers are being undercut, they should raise their prices.

Adeon Writer

If it's no copy, my opinion is you have every right to resell it even if the original creator says otherwise.

This is an opinion I hold on anything that is non-duplicative, like all physical objects.

If the gatcha sellers are being undercut, they should raise their prices.

Lourdes

I find it interesting that the people who are uncomfortable and complaining the most about the whole idea of trading or selling their items at cost or at all for that matter have some of the most popular gatcha items. So its certainly not an issue of monetary loss.

The system works out for everyone.
*The store gets paid
*The people who dump thousands of lindens into gacha machines recoup their loses
*The people who can't get into the gatcha and/or can't dump thousands into the machine can buy the item at yard sales
*Yard sales give access to the common items.
*Most people want to complete collections and/or will want the rare so they will pay the gatcha when they can get on the sim.
*Then we come back to the store gets paid.
*Back to selling dupes at yard sales.

Its a healthy cycle and everyone should be happy.

A.J.

I've seen similar arguments regarding fine art sales in real life. Artists certainly want to sell their work and collect handsome prices for it, but they don't want to cut the cord on the control of their work.

I've always come to the conclusion that someone shouldn't sell something that they can't let go of.

The permissions system is more important than any designers desire to participate in and control the terms of an event.

Give them some cheese to go with their whine.

Toxic Menges

If the items were made no trans, then they wouldn't be able to be sold on ... I've always loved Yard Sales in SL, hell, I have even had a few in my time. Anyone that's been around 2007 onwards and is into clothes knows the value of Last Call items in the second hand market.

If items are set trans, the creator should be aware that there is the possibility of it being sold on ..

Or am I being thick?

Tracy Redangel

I love the Arcade. I couldn't get in the first three days, so I think the designers have done well.
I know they got plenty of my lindens O.o. I love, LOVE the yard sales, because after giving away my duplicates to friends, what am I gonna do with three pairs of lavender roller skates?
The trading and yard sale-selling is all part of the fun. I prefer the Pixel Fusion yardsale, because everything is to be sold for exactly what you paid for it, no more, no less. I would think most creators who participate are well aware that people are going to sell & trade their items. If they don't like it, they shouldn't sign up for it. Of course, they'd be missing out on all that many more people becoming familiar with their brand.

Cake

I'm pretty tired of the designers who are complaining about resales, to the point where I don't want to shop at their stores anymore. Some of them have tried to convey some pretty awful reasons for wanting to retain control of their gatcha items. It comes across as desperate and, honestly, manipulative.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

El Sliven

I have managed to avoid the current gacha drama. So I guess I have done well. I have not even made it to the event yet...waiting a while to try to avoid the ever frustrating lag. However, I kind of DO wish I knew who was whining and crying THIS TIME so that I could avoid their items all together. I am getting increasingly tired of designers who seem to never be happy with the way things are going for them. Yes, they seem to forget that in RL we can go to Walmart buy a T-shirt, rip the arms off if it, write all kinds of "cool" crap on it and RESELL it for TWICE what we paid...or more! And yeah, yeah....I know all the arguments that go along with this kind of thinking...so save your breath....but really guys? Come on! I wish more creators had the kind of attitude that Damien has displayed. My hats off to you, kind sir! It seems to me that because some creators know how to maniputlate pixels (and yes, I admit that I know VERY little about building and have NO inclination to learn) seem to develop the same "God complex" that we see in many surgeons who know how to manipulate the human body. I have seen many GOOD surgeons become their own downfall due to thinking that they have an ability, that no one else has. It is not attractive in Surgeons and it is CERTAINLY not attractive in SL. It just makes you wanna say "Get over yourself". Sorry....just my two cents. I love fashion and spending my REAL money for pixels on a screen as much as the next girl. But all this fighting is starting to leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Tracy Redangel

I look at it this way. I'm an artist in RL. I make a living selling my work to others. Some of my patrons will resell my work, sometimes more than my original asking price, sometimes less. Believe me...as an artist you really don't want your work to decrease in value. If your work can increase value on the secondary market, that means people want to buy your stuff, simple as that. If I got pissy at the people reselling my work, do you think they would keep buying from me? I seriously doubt it.

Kim Anubis

Damien's always been a class act. Merchants who want to do well should emulate him.

Hands

Was this a real problem or overstated?

First sale doctrine applies and creators know this since it's on the permissions wiki. They're free to grant copy permissions if they don't like that. Don't deal with people who don't respect your resell rights.

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