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Thursday, October 09, 2014

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Pussycat Catnap

You've drawn pretty much the opposite conclusion I would from that data.

People want XXX. If you want people to show up... you kind of need to appeal to the demand.

There's a reason Game of Thrones is popular, and it isn't the genre... Even NPR calls it a 'softcore & castration' flick...

(I'm in the small minority not into that sort of thing... so I don't watch it.)

If you were to ban that from SL2... the thing wouldn't survive more than a few months.

As for adult being so on top... Most uses of land in SL are now moot thanks to Marketplace. Either they can be met by marketplace (low end shops or 'off-season catalog') or marketplace has dried up their source of funds (edu, social, art, and club builds that depended on malls).

But XXX remains in high demand and is very poorly simulated when one has no location to go to to simulate it. I'd wager XXX venues are also suffering from lack of funding models - but instead of evaporating they are consolidating.

Actually the other kinds of venues are also consolidating.

But there has always been a massive amount of XXX around SL, and so the consolidating is leading to sims that are more often full for more hours of the day...

FredTheGamer

Hmm.. I actually think you're right there. I'm not pro banning nudity or sex or whatever, but if we want the SL2 platform to succeed, the last thing it needs is a reputation as a 3D sex simulator, or it will crash and burn before we even manage to register for an account.

Ciaran Laval

I find it odd that you bring up Game Of Thrones, shown on a mainstream medium of television and then turn around and say that adult content is an impediment to going mainstream.

Ares Shoreland

I agree with Pussycat Catnap. People want this! If second life banned adult sims it wouldn't be as popular, as this data shows. People can start calling it a sex simulator game, but these people usually don't see value for a virtual world in the first place. An audience, and a big one for that, is still desirable.

Iggy

Sex is one of SL's distinguishing characteristics. Anyway, I've more trouble with graphic violence than sexual content in entertainment.

As much as sexual content hurt educational adoption of the SL platform, LL can't ignore its staying power. They run a company, not a public service, something I and many educators seemed to forget in the Hype Era. Let the "residents" decide what they want to do, as long as no laws get broken in the process.

Wagner James Au

"Game of Thrones" the HBO show is graphic but on the level of an R-rated movie, whereas in SL as we know a lot of Adult content even exceeds porn, where simulated rape, bestiality, etc. are frowned on (at least in much of the world).

"People want XXX."

A niche does, sure. But you can't have that niche without driving a lot of the mainstream away. Compare the user numbers of SL(less than 1 million) versus the user numbers of, say, Minecraft with no graphic sex or violence (approaching 100 million), and you can see where the mass market really goes.

Tracy RedAngel

No, I think what makes Second Life a joke in the mainstream isn't sex, but rather how damn difficult it is for beginners to use.
Didn't Cloud Party ban sexual content and nudity?
Sex was never Second Life's problem, and I think that much restriction over content (aside from child pornography...that SHOULD remain banned) would seriously hurt SL 2.
And if they DID ban pornography in SL 2, what lines would be drawn? Would that mean no nudity, or would that mean Lindens would have to go around policing everyone they catch virtual humping? My god that sounds ridiculous just typing it. It's never been Linden Lab's style to police what people do in Second Life, I seriously doubt they would start doing that with SL 2. Unless they want it to fail on purpose.

Zaphod Kotobide

I think Linden Lab's biggest problem with adult content on the grid was that they didn't anticipate its eventual popularity, and didn't adequately prepare for it in a proactive way. Everything they've done with regard to adult content, controversial content, potentially illegal content, etc, has been a reaction to a problem that they watched boil over before taking action.

Second Life earned its reputation as a world of cartoon sex because that sort of content proliferated across the entire grid before they finally took the decision to create an Adult continent, and segregate that content off of the rest of the grid.

It wasn't the mere presence of adult content in Second Life that gave rise to the reputation, it was the fact that its presence, for quite a while, could hardly be avoided by those who did not want to see it or participate in it.

If Linden Lab had properly anticipated this at the beginning, and developed a workable, trustworthy strategy for content segregation, age verification and enforcement against illegal content and activities, prior to it becoming the problem it was, it would not have been an issue.

If they do it right on SL2, I don't believe it will be an issue there, either.

You simply cannot just tell that many of your customers, "So sorry, and thanks for all your money, but you can fuck off now."

Jane Primrose

I think the answer is not to ban sexual content from SL2, but, as Zaphod suggests above, to have clear rules and plans for it in place from the beginning. Learn from the experience gained on the original Second Life; make it easy for people who want to participate in virtual sex to do so, and equally easy for people who don't to avoid any sign of it.
Or just let Second Life remain a fleshpot of depravity while SL2 is pure, I'm easy either way.

Ezra

Meanwhile, Typepad which hosts this blog allows porn. Twitter which Hamlet used to link to this blog post allows porn. Google which one might use to find this blog otherwise, and Hamlet uses to display ads here, it returns porn search results in images and video as well as text. Amazon, which Hamlet links to on this page for his book also sells erotica. etc.

It's wrong to say banning porn is beneficial for "mass growth". Every massive product and service on the internet accommodates an adult's libido.

Bringing up Minecraft which has almost nothing to do with Second Life as a counterargument to adult content doesn't make sense either. Minecraft is meant to be kid friendly, it's a market they want. Second Life has tried and failed before to accommodate and appeal to young people; from Teen Grid to the Linden Realms mess, but young people don't want Second Life and most likely not it's successor either since it's in the "spirit" of Second Life.

Adeon Writer

Read as "Half of Second Life's most popular sims are now boring sex sims."

No, really. Nothing wrong with it if it's what you're into, but, porn is everywhere. Porn is the baseline. If all you have is porn, something's wrong. Porn isn't becoming more prominent in SL - we're just losing everything else. It's a sign of a problem, not a sign of something you should cater to.

Adeon Writer

That said, banning adult content isn't a wise move either, I have to disagree there. Don't encourage it, don't discourage it. Just take it as a sign that just maybe you really aren't good for much else, and think of how to improve on that.

SL used to be fun for me, but yes, all I see these days are adult regions, everywhere. it's not what I'm into, so I'm logging in less and less.

Tron

I see the third most visited sim in Second Life is named Tron. Is that not a violation of a trademark? Isn't that against Linden their TOS to use Trademark names for regions? Another indicator of Linden Lab their management style.

All that talk about IP rights et voila

Tron

Excuse me the 27th most visited sim, I did overlook the document is in two pages.

A.J.

Many good answers here. Adult content needs to be accepted and managed, not forbidden.

Seriously, it will be the kiss of death if LL bets the farm on this "Field of Dreams" notion that millions of people are just dying to put on their Oculous gas masks and come to a G-rated cartoon playground ... if they would just build it.

It's a world. If you want to expand it, don't start by destroying the half of it you don't like.

FredTheGamer

Hmm yes a lot of good comments, and yeah I might be wrong on this one, banning is probably the wrong approach. I suppose the solution is to discriminate xxx place in search and showcase in favour for art and performance, not remove it completely just push it down in the listings and encourage the kind of sims that fits into the desired profile perhaps with lover tiers or some advertising help

Tankgirl

Why do you have such a problem with pixel sex? blue mars and cloud party banned sex. They died. SL is profitable because of it. Your conclusion is to forbid sex? Why do you have to forbid people anything at all?

Leo

Accessibility is the biggest issue with SL, the menus are not easy to use with a steep learning curve. It takes forever to get your avi to look great and your starter avi starts out with the ugly default chicken walk which will turn off most people in this day and age. I seriously hope SL 2.0's character creation will be similar to EVE Online (with added weight and height adjustments of course)

Wagner James Au

"Your conclusion is to forbid sex?" That misses a very important proviso I added: "at least in the first few years of launch before SL 2 achieves mass growth". If you get into the many of millions of users, yes, porn won't hurt growth. This was actually close to LL's strategy at launch -- GREATLY minimize awareness and coverage of adult content in SL until it reached mass growth. The mistake LL made was assuming the 2006 hype wave was mass growth, when it wasn't. The news reports about age play/virtual child porn started emerging soon after that. The big RL organizations interested in SL understandably freaked.

tankgirl

You are the one missing something important: every virtual world that banned sex, died. Without sex, SL2.0 will not grow larger then SL1.0. Try to let that sink in. What is most searched on the internet? In first life even? Sex and intimacy. A world without sex, is a dead world.

zz bottom

Funny the biggest tech progress on 3d are coming from the porno industry.
Don't be fooled by the moronic Wasp religious minds of a few, to 3d to succeed it will be via sex!
That said, why all assume that to make a region as adult means only to have sex in there?
i know at least a few non sex oriented sims that are adult just cause they want to make sure that only adults are allowed to come in.

Guni Greenstein

Several technically superior competitors to Second Life died because they restricted people in what they would be allowed to do, including restrictions on adult content. Instead of considering restrictions you should rather think of ways to encourage the type of content you would want.

tankgirl

I would like to add that you keep reducing all second life sex again and again to the excesses. That you keep stereotyping it by calling it porn, and by bringing up child play etc. again and again to descredit it. The problem with pixelsex is in your prudish head Hamlet. Most of it is between intelligent, creative, decent, consenting adults that are having fun. And are connecting. And may even find love. You are just brimming predudices. Open your mind.

Jack Mondegreen

At no point did I see Hamlet brim with any particular degree of prejudice - his statements were not to imply that all who engage in these actions are depraved perverts, but that the widespread nature of such a culture early in Second Life's existence gave rise to all manner of negative publicity that forever stunted its growth and left us in an immensely poor position.

Whilst I understand your reservations about the shortcomings of prudish censorship, what's being suggested here is a stepping stone that could allow a platform such as this to flourish and grow as Second Life did when it was first brought into the world, but for that growth to continue at a stable rate.

If anything, this article is about learning from past errors so that any of Linden's future endeavors may be met with a far greater level of success - something that could stand to benefit long term customers and newcomers alike.

Ezra

Or probably the $300 a month price tag for private regions, the open spaces price hike, the educational discount revocation and the like had something with stunted growth and the current downward spiral.


But yes, I know discussing the obvious over and over again gets boring, so yet another red herring it is.

2014

the stigma of SL being for sex isn't going away...ever! There is a reason adult sims are on the top of the list... Sex Sells! It sells in RL, so why would people think it wouldn't sell in SL?

I've talked with many people on this subject, and we agree that LL needs to somewhat embrace the sexual side of SL. LL can try and act like it doesn't exist, but the stats don't lie. Even the designers are now having events catered to it "Romp", "Uber" (50 Shades was the theme of the last round), "Consensual". All those events just recently for adult content.

cathartes aura

The problem from day one in SL concerning land use was the complete incompetence of LL concerning land zoning.

LL was told from the beginning to zone new mainland coming online. Shopping Areas, Entertainment Areas, Sexually Oriented Areas, Residential Areas with different "Ratings - G, PG, R, X. But continent after continent flooded the mainland land market with no zoning. Typically, LL of them... lmao

The end result - a 100 meter jizzing penis shooting over your property line and into your home. or business. etc etc. with no recourse. Now some folks might like 100 meter penii or vaginii. LOL I might be one of them! LMAO!! And they have their place. Just not next to my business or home. LL's major fail!! Yet another in an increasingly long line since 2006. Congratulations LL and the VC's! You guys are "Super Geniuses - Wile E. Coyote" Shakes head and snickers with a devilishly evil grin on my face...

And the Turkey Vulture goes... Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssss... ;)

R ULosingHair

@2014 If sex sells, how fast can you get out-world 300 million balkers into SL, and drive SL's market value up?

2014

@ R U
SL's market value will never go up, pimp SLV.2.whatever, it's not. We can go on and on about its functionality, its problems, lack of growth, but SL is not a babysitter.

What I mean is, in SL you have to be able to entertain yourself first. Games/apps today, people need to be entertained, there needs to me a mission, a quest, a diamond to be found, a beginning, a middle, a end, health to restore, blocks to be moved, etc... SL is non of that.

Shockwave Yareach

If SL is a virtual world, then there is going to be virtual sex. News flash: the real world has real sex in it to. If there are no bad consequences for any virtual thing you can do in a virtual space, then you shouldn't be concerned about what you do in the virtual space. Because when you get right down to it, what you are Really Doing is moving a mouse and pressing buttons.

If video sex is bad, then why is video stealing of cars, video shooting people, and video stealing of stuff considered okay? Heck, there are video destroy the world with nukes around - I suspect trying to do that in RL would get me a 2am visit by the FBI at least. You can do all these other antisocial and downright criminal activities in a video game, and that's considered okay by most people since it isn't real.

But have two unreal avatars dancing in the sheets? Everyone flips their lids...

Metacam Oh

I hate to break it to people here but sex, gambling, and the land gold rush were the reasons for SLs Golden Age. Learn from your mistakes, not repeat them.

A.J.

Maybe I'm beginning to see Hamlet's point of view and it would be the next typical progression for Linden Lab.

I keep thinking like a resident of Second Life. When I look around that world, I think that it's failures have come from outside of the world. I think that if we were properly cultivated, we would thrive.

I sense that Hamlet and the Lab feel that the failures of Second Life have come from within the world. They constantly blame the residents for being a roadblock to success.

The thrill and expense of this new world is absolutely not about the residents, it's about money and narcissistic validation for those who feed from it on the outside.

Shockwave Yareach

AJ

What drove SL to success early was a very simple formula

A. Do whatever you want so long as you aren't breaking the real laws where you are
B. what you create belongs to you
C. You can make virtual money that you can then turn into real money if you wish

But more and more, ll has turned away from these principles which make SL a virtual world, and have tried to hammer it into the shape of a video game. Or a teleconference program - let's not forget that disaster. More and more ll is trying to run SL as below

A. Do whatever we think isn't saucily, and only where we say you can
B. all your property in SL belongs to us. We don't care what your recoepts say
C. You can make money still - but you make it for us.

LL had a perfect solution, let people do what they wanted with their property on their lands. And being able to make money doing it allowed people to afford the high prices. Now nobody makes money but ll and they are trying to make the virtual world into a virtual kindergarten. Had they had separate g, r, and x rated continents from the beginning and just told people to avoid places they didn't like, many of there EXcustomers would still be paying customers.

R ULosingH air

@2014 You said sex sells..

But your response format is called name-calling and that violates LL TOS.
So now we know about your problem solution format - pretty much zero...

Now we also know why Newbie interest and retention is falling... Your style of contempt and undermining is a consumer detriment for SL, to put it straight...

Well nowadays it's about getting the Use Case right and Unterverse.net is doing exactly that... They have several use case solutions cooking now. Some might know it...

More Virtual World competition for Sex Entertainment Use Cases http://redlightcenter.co/ powered by Utherverse.net https://www.utherverse.net/aboutus.html

Now more competition is coming...

More Virtual World competition for Educational Use Cases http://www.utheracademy.com/educators/benefits.aspx

More Virtual World competition for Convention Use Cases http://www.utherconvention.com/

More Virtual World competition for Building Use Cases http://www.utherinteriors.com/

So it's really no wonder that CEO Ebbe Altberg is getting up to speed in this Use Case direction, even if Hamlet is not...


Pussycat Catnap

The internet was built by the XXX industry... Like it or not - they made it mainstream.

Streaming video, video chat, broadband - built and/or funded by them.

Developments in online payment methods... - the XXX industry.

Expanding the use and toolsets of animation, scripting, browsing, etc... - the XXX industry.

Analytics and less spammy more focused advertising also likely comes from them, though I have no proof of this, I can mentally see it as a very obvious early use-case... Because the initial waves of internet spam-advertising were the XXX-folks, and it wasn't working so well while also harming their viability... so learning to focus their targets put them off most people's radars while at the same time driving up revenue.

I'd be very surprised if there are not hacks for minecraft...

I know that one of the first pieces of added content ever made for the Sims was a patch to 'unpixelate' certain features...


If SL 2.0 were to bar XXX in the initial 2 years - in the period where it most needs a lot of people coming in and setting down a personal claim... The platform would go nowhere.

It is not Minecraft. Minecraft took off because its like Legos. And not really a virtual world - but a VR toolbox. Its not a massive shared world.

MMOs get their business as shared games.

In a full world, people want to do a full range of things. And one of the first things many people look for is the fantasies they cannot indulge in their real lives...

SL 2.0 will need better zoning... so the needed walls between different types of content can keep them from disturbing each other.

As noted above: a problem with early SL was setting up your nice 'PG' build only to have your neighbors giant frenis-fountain spew "things" onto your head...

The zoning should go beyond just G, M, A though - there is a world of difference between graphic violent content and sexual content... And SL 1.0 zones them together. They really need 3 zones: each separate, and for my fellow Americans: the two together.

Right now in SL... I believe what you are seeing is a consolidation issue. As I stated above. A lot of venues are merging if they lack sources of funding.

Entertainment venues in SL really have no funding model that works.

We're losing the clubs, social spots, art builds, theme parks, roleplay, etc... - because Marketplace has made all of their existing funding models obsolete.

As we lose them, the people who went to them move to the remaining venues.

I don't think these top venues are necessarily healthy - but rather an example of extreme consolidation. People who used to be split across 10 XXX venues are now in 1.
- And if 8 of those 10 venues had decent traffic, the 1 is now very busy.

G rated builds have never had the kind of traffic A or even M ones do - when they consolidate it doesn't lead to as much boost. Even if a popular one closes and all its people merge into another popular one... that's not as much influx as the XXX place gets.

But that brings me to another thought... Look around the grid - not on some chart, but go inworld, open your map, and fly around. Use SL search too.

G has never faired well compared to A, or even M. M land, despite having no clear terms for what is allowed on it - still does better than G...

A great example of this is to look at the map for Bay City. Super expensive land for sale on its G and M sides... but then notice the number of lots available on each. And more important: know by having been there for the past few years... which of these lots have been listed and seeking a buyer for a very long time... No one wants that G land... What demand is there, has mostly already been met.

As you look all over SL, you can find this as a trend - G land is often for sale for longer than M, and goes for a cheaper price. A land is also often for sale for longer - but that is because mainland A is one continent and the entire market is controlled by one, maybe two land barons - that intentionally keep the price high, and keep half their stock off the market. As a result, A-land estates were thriving.
- Though consolidation will of course change this.

Wagner James Au

"More Virtual World competition for Sex Entertainment Use Cases http://redlightcenter.co/ powered by Utherverse.net"

OK, that link actually contributes to this conversation. However, it basically proves the opposite point: The sex-focused Utherverse is an even smaller virtual world, gets about 1/10th of SL's web traffic: http://www.similarweb.com/website/utherverse.com

There is no 3D interactive experience which allows graphic sex and violence which is larger than Second Life. And once again, Second Life is only a niche virtual world. For Second Life 2 to succeed, it must attract 10X, 100X the users -- a goal Linden Lab has stated themselves.

R ULosingH air

@Hamlet You are still talking from your Flat Earth of Developer Playtoys...

It's a Round Earth of Client Use Cases... ask Ebbe and many others meanwhile...

R ULosingH air

@Hamlet You have grave trouble with accepting Paradigm Change, that's the cause for my repeats.

My the fact-findings remain due-diligent and valid, I find only more and more reverse burden-of-proof evidence.

Other than inductive statements on your part, you have not produced a shred of reverse burden-of-proof and deductive raw-hard-data evidence for your anti-thesises.

R ULosingH air

@Hamlet You have grave trouble with accepting Paradigm Change, that's the cause for my repeats.

My the fact-findings remain due-diligent and valid, I find only more and more reverse burden-of-proof evidence.

Other than inductive statements on your part, you have not produced a shred of reverse burden-of-proof and deductive raw-hard-data evidence for your anti-thesises.

R ULosingH air

@Hamlet You have grave trouble with accepting Paradigm Change, that's the cause for my repeats.

My the fact-findings remain due-diligent and valid, I find only more and more reverse burden-of-proof evidence.

Other than inductive statements on your part, you have not produced a shred of reverse burden-of-proof and deductive raw-hard-data evidence for your anti-thesises.

Pussycat Catnap

@Hamlet: Your Utherverse link just shows that a narrow focus is bad.

SL does well in part because it allows XXX. But forcing XXX is not the same thing as allowing it.

SL allows people to express themselves in full variety - and that is what does well for it.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Hamlet, SL IS a success. It's still around and it turns a steady profit. I think the only other VW to come close to that is Playstation Home!

Perhaps VW's really ARE a niche market, that 100x the users aren't interested in, so they will never get "Facebook" style numbers. There's nothing wrong with finding a niche and making steady profit year in and year out. You're falling for the "valleywag" definition of success: "If a thing doesn't have triple digit growth every quarter.it's a failure." Those valleywags who say things like that...are wrong. We live in a finite world so reaching a steady state is a good thing.

Tracy RedAngel

So you think they should have 2-3 years of a pious virtual world, THEN open the floodgates to smut? If your theory is correct, wouldn't they risk driving their mainstreamers away at that point?

Issa Heckroth

Tracy is right. If it starts without smut, it stays without smut. No way in hell they would add it at a later point.

What your suggesting is killing the goose that seems to be laying at least half of the golden eggs. Where is the sanity in that?

I get the whole "chasing the mainstream" thing, but nobody has yet proved this mainstream market even exists yet.

Ciaran Laval

@Hamlet "There is no 3D interactive experience which allows graphic sex and violence which is larger than Second Life."

No but porn on the web itself dwarfs Second Life usage by a mighty amount and that's before we get to the violence on television, cinema and internet videos. Yet the television, cinema and the web are all considered mainstream.

Zoning, gates and sensible filtering are the way to go.

The thing with Second Life and adult content is that a lot of content that is in no way, shape or form adult in itself, is purchased because people want to engage in adult activities some of the time. That includes land and buildings.

Tankgirl

^^ and hair :-)

Pussycat Catnap

This actually began as a comment in a blog that wrote a piece mentioning this article... but I found I was addressing this topic more than her topic so moving it here.

Its pretty common for people not familiar with SL to paint it with a wide brush of "it is all like this". Actually that's pretty common of human nature to paint anything people don't know with a wide and simple label.

The desire to ensure SL 2.0 bans 'sexual content' for the first 2 years under a belief that the prevalence of such content has hurt SL, is one I find flawed...

There is a presumption that when something is found, people will assume the entire package is that one element. This is often a major part of how bias works.
- But I do not think appealing to that presumption will help SL 2.0


Second Life is many things to many people, and often many things to each individual person that uses it. This variety, serves to make it lifelike. Just because I'm not running around on the poseball furniture does not mean I don't see its value - it is a part of what makes this more 'lifelike' than an MMO/game.

The moment we start making lists of things that should be removed from SL / SL 2 in order to "save it", we're going to find we have trouble stopping.

Which is not to say I don't see some things that should be barred from the platform (hate groups, depictions of real world graphic violence, and facilitation of real-world criminal activity). But I think the limit needs to be very tightly confined to things that are likewise banned in Real Life.

All of the kinky XXX fursuit whatever-the-freak stuff that goes on in SL is actually not banned or illegal in the real world... its just... not exactly professional conduct.

People are going to have a limited view of SL no matter how much SL tries to appease their biases. In the end people are either going to stick to their filters no matter what and not try SL, or overcome those filters and find out its more than they thought.

That kind of goes back to a blog I wrote a long time ago on why I call SL a game. The main point of which was not the label 'game', but I was trying to make the point that people are going to perceive the platform as something no matter what you try to do, and no matter how much you either resist or, as Hamlet suggests here, try to appease them.

Appeasing those with bias against you has never worked for anyone.

Limiting the experience of SL, because of a fear of outsider bias - will not help the platform overcome that bias. But it will limit the potential of the platform.

Issa Heckroth

I think having tighter control over Adult content is a better idea than banning it outright. Just do it right so minors and people not interested in it can avoid or have it blocked from view.

I always thought a tag which flagged an item as "adult" should be mandatory for creators to use, then this flag could be used to stop that item working in sims rated lower than Adult. Oh, and a setting which allows you to force-bake underwear onto people who refuse to keep their clothes on.Some Y fronts and a set of bloomers. That would sort those pesky nudists out! :D

This must be the most commented on article in quite a long time, so I think that proves how important the issue is to people, and the overwhelming message is "No frickin way!"

Issa Heckroth

"Your world, your imagination.....just keep your pants on."

Metacam Oh

I actually agree with Pussycat Catnap for once. SL became great because you could do whatever you want, whatever your imagination could steer you. It started sucking when they became big brother and started telling you what you can and cant do. But this is inevitably a problem with a virtual world hosted by one entity that tried to monopolize and own everything that happens inside. Personally if SL2 is still the old Linden Lab hosts your virtual land on their servers and rents it to you for a gigantic fee, then whether porn is allowed or not will be moot because it will be a failure. That business model has proven to be a failure and limits growth and freedom all in the name of greed and control.

A.J.

I agree with Pussycat Catnap's thoughtful reply.

If SL2 is going to be a success ... it's about the tools, not the rules.

Sinead McMillan

"Forbid pornography and extremely violent content, at least in the first few years of launch before SL 2 achieves mass growth (assuming it does)."

Does that mean banning sex from SL2 in genereal?
I wouldn't presume so.
How do you define "pornography"?

But as an adult european citizen I believe in a morality beyond the church, the Tea Party and other American Bigotry.

shirc desantis

Sure, ban it for 2 years then (along with all those other things this mythical 'mainstream' might not like - insert your fave RP here for best effect) - then 2 years after the launch I might wander over to have a look. If I remember...

Adeon Writer

I don't do adult material on SL, but it wouldn't feel the same if I couldn't. I prefer no restrictions. I wouldn't want to even get on board a world that dosent allow adult material (cloud party) by the simple fact that I know it won't succeed.

Carl Metropolitan

Winning business strategy:
1) Discover what half your customers want.
2) Ban it.
3) Profit!

Cicadetta Stillwater

Adeon, I don't do "adult" stuff, either. I run into it from time to time, because that's what happens when you explore, but for the most part it's easy to avoid.

It's easy to find, too, if you're into that sort of thing. No big deal.

That being said, spending time on an Adult-rated sim doesn't necessarily mean participating in "adult" activities. I've been hosting occasionally at a venue on an adult sim, and you know, it's just live music. Okay, there was a pole dancer there the other night, but she was more or less fully-clothed. *shrugs* Meanwhile, there's an M-rated sim called "Sexy Nude Beach" ranked at #5...

Even if banning adult content *were* a good idea, how would LL even police that?

Carl Metropolitan

Porn clearly makes new technologies unpalatable to mass markets. Remember what huge failures printing, movies, the VCR, and the Web were!

Phantom Republic

As missionaries were to the new worlds, so is adult content to virtual worlds. Yes, second life might be a different place without it, but the virtual world cemetery is filled with VR competitors (often with better technology) who insisted on a PG environment.

Not everyone who experiences adult content in SL is trying to "get off," as it was eloquently described. Many are seeking an immersion experience with their partners of choice as the build families of choice. If LL decides to go the route of being more PG than EAST games, let's pray they have better luck than the latter did with Sims Online.

An alternative would be something akin to premium TV. Game of Thrones was mentioned ... something anyone with a TV can't watch unless they opt in ... and do so with cash. A way to keep adult content out of the virtual publics eye ... no adult content outside of adult zones, and only with premium membership .... creating a new stream of revenue for LL without additional overhead.

Phantom Republic

Apologies for autocorrect!

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Wagner James Au VR virtual worlds
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