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Wednesday, March 04, 2015

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Ciaran Laval

I'd like to see an official comment. One would hope Twitch know enough to see beyond the silly stereotypes that exist about SL.

Nathan Adored

So, how likely is this policy to do real PR damage to Twitch? Is there a way to tilt the odds in our favor, to the point that they trot out a big, public apology and they then take disciplinary action against those moderators who too eagerly suspending people over streaming from Second Life? For that matter, what can be done to make them be more transparent about what games or programs they prohibit, so that they can be called on the carpet for games or services that *don't* belong on the ban list? It is high time that ALL internet-based services be *required* to be transparent about things like this. Google, for instance, lists *every* *single* instance where they have been required to censor search results (except in cases where the law requires they not list it, and even then they've challenged the validity of such listing limitations), this should be the gold standard for ALL online services that provide information to the public. Full stop.

Ezra

Narrow and outdated is insisting Second Life the platform is only one of the kinds of content that can be created in it and hosted, games in this case. Why the hypocrisy? I love when SL bloggers want to insist SL is only a game, yet get offended when the media labels SL is only a porn simulator.

Here's to services like Twitch, marketplaces like Steam, educators, businesses and users of all kinds continuing to either write SL off as a terrible game that for some reason ships without gameplay and 90s graphics, or just some porn simulator. God knows SL's blog community has never had an interest in describing Second Life as what it actually is to help manage expectations; it's a 3D platform with a client that by default is devoid of porn and games much like the text web as a platform and it's client Google Chrome is devoid of porn and games 'til one purposefully goes and find it or create it.

Janine/Iris

@Ezra I did not say it's "only a game". I said that people who insist that it's NOT a game are operating with a narrow and outdated definition of 'game'.

Ezra

@Iris

It sounds like you also believe it'd be accurate to call Second Life a film because film screenings in it are possible, a charity app because charities in it are possible, a soundtrack because music in it is possible, an audiobook because book reading circles in it are possible, etc.

There's nothing open minded or present thinking about being confusing and purposefully off-base. Just like you immediately took issue with my saying "only" even though it'd be perfectly fine to call something like GTA "only" a game, outsiders that don't know better always become quickly confused when Second Life is described as a game, and then they log in to an experience that is absolutely not gameplay.

zz bottom

What is Twitch ?
Funny how many don't know ship about Second Life, Open sim or any other virtual games but they assume one has to know about other things like that Twitch.

Arcadia Codesmith

Second Life is a virtual world within which you can play games, but which is not in itself inherently a game. Actually, you could say the same about most MMORPGs, but there the game elements are "baked" into the world to the point that you have to make an active choice and effort to avoid them.

That's not a narrow definition. It's a broad one. On a Venn diagram of online interactive entertainment, Second Life intersects online gaming, but it is not bounded by it.

A blanket prohibition on SL content because it might be explicit is ill-considered, in light of the fact that you can do the naughty in any virtual environment with a chat system. SL just has superior graphics for the purpose. Boom chicka waa waa.

Adeon Writer

Watching someone else play Second Life spunds like it would be utterly boring, but I've never been banned for streaming it.

http://i.imgur.com/K1BoN7p.png

Adeon Writer

More curiously: you can even pick "Second Life" as a chooce of what you are streaming, which is odd they'd include it on the list if not allowed.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Iris wrote: This was very surprising to me. Why? Well first and foremost because Second Life is a game, and arguments to the contrary tend to demonstrate a laughably narrow and outdated idea of what games are or can be.

###########

I'm with Ezra and Arcadia on this, SL is not a game, even though you can play games with in it. I can shop in it but it isn't Macy's. SL is more akin to a "table", or a park. You can play games on a table or in a park, but the table or park itself isn't a game. You can eat at a table or have a picnic in a park but neither is a restaurant. but also eat on it. They're tools for doing many things. SL isn't a game, it's a virtual world tool for doing many things.

And as I said in the previous post about this issue, you're not supposed to stream non-game content to Twitch....and SL is literally not a game.

melponeme_k

I agree with Iris.

SL is a game. It gamifies interactions in that the players can turn their avatars into any kind of person, animal or inanimate object. They can turn their environments into something like Candy Land or play it conservative. Many people interact in ways that skirt the line between role play and being on the level honest.

Its a game that is so rare and new, people don't even have a definition for it yet or recognize it as gaming. But it is.

Malkavyn Eldritch

I am an avid watcher and streamer of Twitch. I stream SL activities that deal with creation of my business products, both in and out of Second Life. I also stream some gaming from time to time with friends. I find it quite strange that Twitch.TV has a tag for Second Life, if they don't support it? I've also been on Twitch for many years and never received any notice of such a rule.

http://puu.sh/go5SG/d5dee8bed7.jpg

I watch the development streams all the time which sometimes just deals with someone drawing art in Photoshop or SAI and not having anything to do with a game. I've used HitBox in the past as well. It is slowly making a name for itself but it's mostly a foreign audience for now. It's heads and tails better than Twitch for smaller streamers that are moving their own traffic but to garner traffic from the site, that will be slow going for dev streams.

Nathan Adored

This back and forth argument about whether or not SL constitutes a game brings to mind that old joke from... seems to me it was Saturday Night Live. There was this mock-commercial where a couple people where arguing over whether this (made up) product was a dessert topping or a floor wax, and then the product-representative guy stepped in to say, "You're both right! It's a dessert topping AND a floor wax!"

The truth of the matter is, Second Life constitutes "a game" enough that it SHOULD fall within the definition set forth for places like Twitch.tv, and for them to argue otherwise does both SL *and* their service a disservice, and the sooner they publicly acknowledge this and apologize, the better.

Ezra

Twitch allows non-game related content. Plenty of streamers sit around and just chat basically. There's a talk show category, a music category for DJs, a game development category for people making games rather than playing them; and even within those categories people skirt the lines without punishment.

Second Life got banned from Twitch because of trolls and griefers like ones with videos you'll find on YouTube; they tended to gravitate towards adult areas where nudity and sex beds were common.

Iris pointed out HitBox allowing Second Life and the most popular Second Life streamer there is BritBong, a troll (at least last I checked).

So the problem is for awhile no one, at least no one popular enough to be more visible than trolls/griefers streamed. That's easily remedied by people like Drax continuing to stream and showing different kinds of content.

I think Linden Lab needs to reach out to Twitch themselves and explain what Second Life is and how nudity in Second Life is more difficult to enable and encounter than some of their most popular games. Rust for example, it's a lot easier to just uncheck the blur penis option and viola 20 penises on screen; that compared to all the age verification, search result filter changing and etc. you have to do in Second Life ontop of having to actually go find an adult sim.

icecream

YouTube SL Troll Charlie Winsmore (who has a twitch partnership and a lot of subscriptions) was told flat out he's not allowed to stream any SL on the service my twitch staff. Its been that way for over a year and they've shown no sign of wanting to change it unfortunately.

Layla

They do not allow any streaming of SL. I have seen people not even showing nudity get banned within 5 minutes of starting the stream. It's all about the nudity and other sexual stuff that they don't allow. But i do find that its bull that they don't take the second life icon out of twitch or at least warn u before you stream that its a no no

Swift

What complainers and article's author fail to understand:
a) SecondLife as social network got ToS that got paragraphs to protect privacy, streaming it without explicit permission of company and other users is privacy and digital right breach based on Terms of Service
b) SecondLife is just more advanced version of IMVU, a media-assisted chat program, it contain personal data. You can call it game but it's still a communication program (and there are too many clients that are text only)

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