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Wednesday, June 24, 2015

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Jo Yardley

There is a nazi flag for sale on marketplace and other Nazi related items regularly pop up.

Wagner James Au

Link? None came up for me after several searches.

Ciaran Laval

It's definitely there, I found it on first search, there are other items too.

Wagner James Au

You're right, thanks -- updated. Now I need to ask the Lindens about the Nazis, too!

sirhc desantis

Search for waffen - armband there, with the charming desc :
'Has a nice touch to it. Have fun and take it off if someone complains lol. ;)'

Not exactly thin on the ground, sadly


Dargo

I once while working at Dance Island asked security to remove a full blown Hitler avatar, i was laughed at, seems that opinions differ in SL

Jo Yardley

I've banned several Hitlers, which is quite a satisfying thing to do.
Wish I could have done it in RL, in 1933.

Theres a lot of Nazi stuff on marketplace and in SL if you know where to look even though the swastika has been named as being against TOS by a Linden.
But they do keep an eye out for it and remove it.

Veritas

I agree that we should destroy all symbols of ideas we disagree with. In no way do I think it is beneficial for future generations to encounter anything other than that which I think is good and moral.

zz bottom

Sorry but is illegal to wear, wave or just use the confederate flag in any way in RL?

zz bottom

Same with Hitler or Nazi's thing, it is illegal to use them on rl in Usa?

zz bottom

Cause in europe it is, at least in many countries, but last time i heard not in Usa and the problem is not the use of the symbols is your's weapons laws as Your President is trying to state for a long time!

zz bottom

So perhaps instead of posting about flags you should post about the influence of some lobbies in your Country.

zz bottom

Veritas, a wise post at least. And we do blame some religions when in fact i feel that most are as extremists as them.

zz bottom

Deny history for all you wish, but is not destroying its memory that you will end making all right!

zz bottom

Wow can any teaches and shows how evil was Nazism, or AH ideas and the same with racism of any kind if we obliterate its references and symbols?

Issa Heckroth

"I once while working at Dance Island asked security to remove a full blown Hitler avatar, i was laughed at, seems that opinions differ in SL"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXKSLhIIJb8

Ice Petal

Claiming that this is "about" suppressing things you disagree with is quite an oversimplification, as the promotion of violence is inseparably a part of what the stars and bars stands for.

Issa Heckroth

Banning things never works out. You cant ban ideas and symbols in any meaningful way. Education is the way forward.

Veritas

Ice Petal - You are the one guilty of oversimplifying. Promoting violence is still just an idea. It doesn't make you violent. Violence and the decision to be violent is a product of will not ideas.

Ciaran Laval

Apple have removed all games from their app store with the confederate flag image in them.

http://kotaku.com/apple-yanks-games-with-confederate-flags-from-app-store-1713885047

Not sure what to make of this, historical games are something I think can be good in educational terms.

Iggy

"I've banned several Hitlers, which is quite a satisfying thing to do."

That is one of the finest comments of all time.

I live in the former Confederate capital, and I have seen these flags all my 50+ years. They were common decor for white Southerners of all social classes once, most of them at least passively bigoted. We had items sporting them around the house. There was still a lot of "lost cause" pride then about the valor of the Southern armies, and so on.

Later on, the flag was displayed differently around here. That really started in the early 70s, and it went from passive symbol for most whites to active symbol of resistance to government, diversity, and change. In that guise, it was usually flown or stuck to a truck window by less-affluent white men who felt things had been taken away from them.

I've at least one ancestor on mom's side who fought under that flag. Robert E. Lee made his men fold it--a battle flag, and never a national one--at Appomattox. Here is what he told Southern parents not long after the war, when he became a college president: “Forget local animosities. Teach your sons to be Americans.”

One would think we might do that same and fold the Confederate battle flag for good. All it did for Richmond is lead us to pick the wrong side at the start, then burn our own business district at the end. To hell with it.

Ice Petal

Veritas - We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Ideas precede action, even, very often, emotion. The flag is as potent a symbol of hate and brutality as you'll find in the U.S., and one that has worked to stifle other ideas, not free them.

Veritas

Oh but you misunderstand. I do agree with you. I hope that this is just the beginning of a new and brighter future in which these types of symbols are taken out of our world. I hope that this will eventually lead to a world in which all things that are distasteful are gone. I hope that someday all forms of brutality and violence are removed from our books, movies, stories, music, poetry and other art forms. I hope for a day when our children need never hear of such things as the world wars, atomic bombs, kkk, slavery, terrorism, guns, knives, baseball bats, crowbars, sport fighting, etc,. I hope someday we are wise enough to remove all experiences related to force, violence and coercion from our existance. A day when people have no concept of struggle for that which is right because everything is already perfect. A day in which we would never have to conceive of anything other than our own comfort. A time when our thoughts are never challenged with such filth and human misery. A lovely perfect happy future.

Ciaran Laval

Apple are now working with devs to restore games that feature the confederate flag but don't break policy, such as historically accurate games. Seems they were a little over zealous with their removals.

http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/25/apple-bans-games-and-apps-featuring-the-confederate-flag/

Jo Yardley

The swastika as a Nazi symbol is officially banned in SL.

Cube Republic

Can you use it as a Hindu symbol Jo?

Wow

Wow. America has gone full retard. The confederate flag is not inherently racist. It's ridiculously petty and over the top to ban a flag. Is racist history tied to the flag? To some extent. Is just as much to celebrate the southern states with it's culture and valid history? Yes.

Some random crazy racist acts crazy and everyone tries to scramble at where to blame it other than the confused guy himself.

Then by the same token, we can never display the original flag of the United States (designed by Betsy Ross) because that flag goes back to a time when wealthy, white landowners owned slaves. You can't "cherry pick" which flags are appropriate in U.S. history.

Veritas

Saying "america has gone full retard" is just as bad as saying everyone with a confederate flag is a racist. Grow up.

Dave

Bigotry is defined as "intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself."

There seems to be this idea floating around, largely perpetuated by editorials and blogs, that people ought to expect to have the world tailored so that nothing offends their personal sensibilities, by power of law if necessary, and by extension, by power of force. I've never met a person face to face, to my knowledge, that genuinely expects or even wants such a thing. Such a person could only be described as the ultimate bigot.

irihapeti

@Dave

you need to get out more. To get some real life experience of bigotry

Dave

@irihapeti

I see your point... "ultimate bigot" is definitely a poor choice of words, but I think the point stands.

Bigotry is a double edged sword. Using policy to censor those you would call bigots only gives credence to otherwise incredulous grievances. Worse, it ends dialog and prevents reform, whereby the cultural meaning of the symbol can change, and those who would use it for hate would find it utterly useless for that purpose.

In this particular instance, you have a group that claims the symbol as a declaration of southern pride -- no more offensive than an immigrant displaying the flag of their homeland. On the other, you have a group that uses it as a symbol of hate, meant to intimidate. On another, to declare a rebellious nature.

By banning the symbol, you're effectively giving exclusive rights to use the symbol to those who have the least respect for the governing authority imposing the ban. You ensure the symbol will forever carry power, influence and meaning only for the group whose influence you wish to diminish.

This, in a nutshell, is why almost all censorship is bad.

Nathan Adored

This reminds me a bit too much of something that happened in the 1990s. Schools were having problems with students getting into illicit drugs, so the school system banned.... ink-pens shaped like syringes. oO It didn't solve the problem, in fact the action had nothing at all to do with stopping kids from smoking pot or whatever, but for those on the outside hearing only vague 30-second-soundbite reports, they could at least give the illusion they were "doing something about" illicit drugs... but removing something that is only a thin-veneer surface-detail that may or may not even be connected with the issue (maybe some of the kids had the syringe pens because they wanted to grow up to be doctors) is a lot easier than actually going out and stopping something like drug addiction, or in today's case, creeping bigotry.

I'll leave you with someone else's article on this "lets ban the Confederate flag instead of dealing with the real issue" thing. It's a pretty interesting read.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150625/10363731458/south-carolina-massacre-results-apple-going-flag-stupid-app-store.shtml

Petal Abdool

'The swastika as a Nazi symbol is officially banned in SL.

Posted by: Jo Yardley | Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 04:06 PM'

If linden lab wants to ban the symbol of my religion then they can expect to see my lawyers in court with it even ending in a national incident until then we will have the symbol everywhere in our 20+ regions without signage explaining why.its the rights given to us by our gods.

Do the world a favor and keep the censorship at your national borders!
another self righteous European if 500 years of plundering over 150 nations and enslaving hundreds of millions now the world is free but you expect to still set the moral high ground.

Do not take 5000 years of other peoples culture and tell us because some nutcase in your land used it as a symbol of hate that we should pay any price on the other side of the world.

The symbol has been used 5000+ and is an important symbol for over 1.5 billion followers of Hinduism,Jainism & Buddhism.

I suggest you educate yourself and move beyond the engrained ideas of over self importance that your western lifestyles value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

zz bottom


Censorship is a mirror of the worst of mankind as much as hate.

Shockwave Yareach

Well let's ban all the nazi memorabilia too. And the Goreans - sexist. And why do we have male and female bits? Do you think victims of sex abuse want to see that?

There are a number of things I don't want anything to do with. Guess what? I don't have anything to do with them or people who are into them. But I don't tell others how to live or what they can and can't do. I expect the same in return.

The flag has no place over a capital unless you are seceding from the union. But what you do on your parcel or in your house is not my business, even if I personally disagree with what it represents.

irihapeti

@Dave

we been having quite a good discussion over on the SL forums about this

my own view on the raising of a soldiers battle flag for our own personal gratification and/or making some political fu gesture is, by what right do we do this?

the battle flag is carried into battle by soldiers. It is a war banner. It was not the flag of the CSA, it was not a State flag either at the time and place of battle

when you are defeated, the war banner is struck. Surrender offered and accepted with honour. A soldiers honour

when General Lee arrived at the battlefield, it was put to him under the guns: you are lost, sir. Ka mate, ka ora (as my own people put it). Is it death, or is it life? General Lee looked and saw that it was true. He was lost. And on his honour he struck his colours (his war banner, his battle flag). And on his honour he accepted the offer of life. Not only for his soldiers but also for his people. That they may live

in the final act of the American Civil War, it was same put to Captain Waddell, the last actual forreal soldier of the CSA still remaining at war. You are lost sir. Ka mate, ka ora. And he looked and he could see that he was lost also. And he also on his honour struck his war banner, his battle flag, his ensign and it was finally over

+

by what right do local government leaders who raised again (and keep it raised even today) the war banner of these soldiers who ceded it with honour. When they do this then they spit on the honour of their own ancestors

if individuals choose to do this then ok. They can be as fw and dishonourable as they like. But for State leaders to do this then is way off

the States that incorporated the battle flag of General Lee and Captain Waddel after the battle was lost and the war banner struck, is pretty disgraceful behaviour. It says more about their own honour and their lack of respect for their own ancestors than anything else

Adeon Writer

I'm more of a fan of the south's final flag design:

Hitomi Tiponi

Let's just hope that in the next mass shooting in the States (i.e. next week or next month) that the perpetrator is not shown posing with Second Life on his computer screen...

DaisyRP

This is rediculous. Just because a couple yahoos parade around with the confederate flags mean that you get to erase a part of America's history? I role play in a Civil War sim and we use the flag for historical meaning and for showing southern pride. Treating it like a symbol of hate will only make it one.

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