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Thursday, December 01, 2016


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Lets hope they allow him to fix it up a bit. I see so many people turn up and try to chill out at their old favorite spots only to find the animations broken. Personally I would be as angry as hell if they resurrected one of my sims without telling me. It's as if they are going all out to prove what we all know and feared, once you create something in SL they own it and they can do what they like with it. The absolute cheek of forcing a sim owner to quite and leave behind years of hard work and struggle because of extortionate pricing, and then after a while open the place up again as if to say" hey look how much we care for much loved sims"


Hamlet, can you ask Dane if he knows about this recreation? http://opensimworld.com/hop/75423-The-Lost-Gardens-of-Apollo


I think someone mentioned on the other post about this that he did know about the opensim version

Dartagan Shepherd

This is part of the reason I left SL and haven't looked back. When they made sweeping changes to the ToS that allowed them to do anything with my content.

Dane Zander

Hello all, I'd like to clarify things re. my old sim, Apollo (The Lost Gardens of Apollo).

First of all, I have the very best relationship with Linden Labs, and always did. I always received exceptional service, be it for any matter, big or small. That is since 2004, since my first 512 lot on the Mainland. I do not hold any grudges, nor do I feel badly treated in any way. On the contrary!
My reasons for shutting down the sim were personal, financial, but in no way whatsoever did it have anything to do with being treated poorly by LL. Please understand this.

Yes, I was surprised when "my" old sim was suddenly back online. I wasn't prepared for that, and given the time difference (I live in Denmark, Europe) and the sudden barrage of emails/IM's I received, I was stunned, to say the least. Clueless. I was having my morning coffee when everything started dinging and donging and bleeping and bonging. I wasn't really expecting that!

But I was also elated, when I got in-world and could once again fly around "my" sim. It was an emotional moment for me, and I felt a true Nerd's gratitude. Oh man!

I IM'ed Mogura Linden listed as owner and as per usual, I have received a gracious reply and am in talks with LL as we speak.

I have offered my unconditional help and any item I had removed just prior to shutdown. I am confident we will work everything out - including getting scripts and music running again so you all can once again enjoy "my" old sim whenever you feel like it.

I am humbled, honored and very thankful for your attention and loyalty. Totally unprepared. Still, thank you!

Dane Zander


They are lucky to have you. I guess if someone was to nick my coat and I saw them wearing it around town, I could take the attitude that at least they were warm and dry and I was contributing to their life in some way :)

Abby Fraser

I'm happy to see the sim is back. I used to visit there with my old account, until it closed down.
And i can help bringing more visitors to your sim, since i love to take landscape pictures, and i provide the slurl of places i visit.

One thing i find a little bit confusing though: There is another sim called "Lost Gardens of Apollo Memorial" - is that your sim too, Dane?
Well i hope that Apollo will stay there for awhile yet :)


Well bless my soul if you are not correct :) There is an almost exact copy "Lost Gardens of Apollo Memorial" courtesy of Delphi Bernard. SL is just amazing. Just like buses, you wait for ages and then 2 turn up at the same time. It's Ok Dane you don't need to bother, someone has already resurrected your sim.


So, I and my SL business partner Lunata Lupino, built an island together where Lunatas plants were displayed for sale. Most items were set to buy in fact. . We also closed down due to high cost of the island. So if the Lindens decided to resurrect our creation under their ownership, and people bought plants, where would the revenue go?

As I recall The Gardens of Apollo had shops. Were they resurrected also? Who owns the items in those shops?


They were probably rental shops as a way for Dane to recoup some of the land fees. They probably were not re-rezzed as part of the original build.

Carlos Loff

Let´s gather and buy the damm platform to make it a decent plave and use 100% of it´s potential instead of the actual 40%


What an idiot.


And that goes for the rest of ya.


What morons.


What morons.


What idiots.


Zane's gracious reply reminds me of what I loved about SL when I first rezzed there.

lol's reminds me of the other bit.


It is a damning comment upon our currant Twittereque society that a once bright and relatively literate generation have been reduced to using meaningless, monosyllabic burst of vitriol in place of reasoned arguments, as lol demonstrates.
But beyond this, and Danes absolute acceptance, and indeed gratitude for the Frankenstein like re animation of his first love, I feel it is a serious issue that LL would resurrect digital content without the permission of the original creator. It is not the fact that they can do it, as this is clearly something that their TOS forces us all to accept the possibility of. But the fact that they would actually do it, again demonstrates their lack of moral integrity, or understanding of their community, IMHO.


Breaking news! The sim has been off limits for the last 6 hours, maybe it has been decided to actually get it working and looking it's best,via it's creator before slinging it back on line again without any care or consideration for it's once much loved status.

Adeon Writer

> So if the Lindens decided to resurrect our creation under their ownership, and people bought plants, where would the revenue go?

To you, since you would still own the objects being paid money.

Dane Zander

From Dane Zander:
Let's just all calm down. I have spoken to Linden Labs, and they have offered me a wonderful opportunity to restore my sim! It is amazing, I am happy and humbled.
I haven't sold out. Linden labs are not the Bad Guys here. They simply want a once successful sim back as a Historic Landmark. And so what? I am humbled and grateful. I'll help in any way I can. They are being more than friendly and graceful, and why should I not help? It is my major work in SL being resurrected, and I have no other feelings other than thankfulness, awe, and quite a bit of emotion.
So... let us all be calm. Everything is fine. You will all be able to visit the sim if you feel like it. It will be like it was. Just be a bit patient, ok? RL is a factor, and LL is being very, very friendly and forthcoming. And patient!
Please be patient as well. The Lost Gardens of Apollo will be up and running again. There are just certain agreements and rules to follow. So, patience is the word.
That all said, I am personally amazed and grateful for the attention such an old build can receive. Thank you.
Dane Zander


It has nothing to do with calmness or otherwise. Either they contacted you first or they opened it without asking. if it is the latter, then regardless of how you personally feel, it is to do with taking ownership of other peoples creativity. If they were so wonderful, how come they let it close and left it closed all this time, and only resurrected it now times are getting a bit lean.

metacam oh

I think that's great, they should have been doing this kinda thing for a long time. I just take issue with them bringing it back without even asking you. I realize that is part of their new TOS that we all debated whatever it was 4-5 years ago. Not only brought back without asking, the objects you created had a Linden as creator? These are just questions, maybe they tried to reach out. Just doesn't sit right with me if they didn't.

Chester Oh

Piller's of Hercules & Midsomer Isle both built before Apollo,was both pre-sculpty, was way better designed then Apollo. they paid tier long after Apollo closed, did not cry and create a bunch of drama before being shutdown. they used honest means to build there sims no tricks or hacks. they too were perfect examples of early second life.
What they did not have..linden friends,BEING A LINDEN PET,being put on a server by themselves so to be lag free.getting all the noobs and donations sent there way.sims resurrected for free.

Hats off to the great sims & places lost who really helped make SL WHAT IT WAS. they are unsung with no monuments and mostly forgotten as older residents die off one by one.if only new residents really got to see how great the old world could be.[Insert your lost place here]

The Lost Gardens of Olympus(predated Apollo by 1 year AND ALSO HAD TWO TOWERS AND A HARBOR)
Mysterious Dream,Sidhe's Celtic Dream,World's End Garden,[pteron],CHAKRYN FOREST,Silvanus ,~ Mysterious Wave ~[[ SoNg BiRd]] & [[..DaRk TeArS..]],Garden of Sorrows,Black Swan,Peaceful Moments, Rivet Town,Steelhead,Aldarian Isle,
Pillers of Hercules,Alpha Point,Omega Point,Midsomer Isle,Midsomer Meadows,Garden of love & romance, Enchanted Unicorn,Peaceful Forest,Dark Forest,Elf Circle,Jaded Wings,Elf Forest,HuMaNoiD,Timeless Rainforest, Glimmer Fantasy Roleplay,Midnight Garden,
Lost Sea of Atlantis, Bentham Manor, Serenite Cutting garden,Japan Gardens,Flowers Gardens,Nexus Prime,Midnight Reflections,Tai Chi Gardens,Paradise Lost,The Lost Paradise,Mermaid Temple,Immersiva,Alirium,Japan Dream Kenjin,Chouchou,Art Screamer,Forgotton City,Prada,Dernier Lamento,The Dark Swamp,Venexia,Greenies,Wasted Night,
Fairy Forest & Temple of Mermaids,Teardrops Forest,Lovers Fields,
Originalia,Roan,Rustica, Winterfell Amaranthine,Elven Mist,Gold Dust,
Solaria,Vana,Black Taj,Photon Pinks,Elven Realm,Africa,Alurel,Elfhame,Steelhead Shanghai,Japan Canvas,Mesh Mellows,Van,Garden of Absentia,Paradise of Memories,Gardens of Greenburg,Elonia,Lemondrops Forest,Scary Forest, Lost Love Memorial, Sheldon Gardens
Taliesin Shores,Sanctum,Hakone,Mystico,Port Babbage,Lost World,Living Daydream,
Hobo Amusement Park,Pathfinder Lowlands,Dream Reliance,Kuso,Angelinne Falls,Delirium,
japan project gardens,Gypsy Moon, Witch Forest,Panda, Pandoria,Old London,Bentham Forest(original),Angels Sanctuary,
Song Bird, The Forest Floor,Echo Point,Faery Dreams,Nikon,Forest of Dreams,BlueMoon
Alfheim,Phaze Demesnes,Hwanung,Joy Isle,Elysium Gardens,Fantasy Isle,Rookwood,Firespire,Shiny Falls,Faery Dust,Fairy Dust,Hokkaido Japan,Magenta Skies,Arab Gate,Daydream Island,Eternity Isle,Midnight City,Tayaila,The Forbidden City,The Enchanted Forest,Forest of Samhain,Tol Narma Vire,Midnight Forest,Secret World,Midnights Reflections,Asphodel Meadows,Fairyverse,Phantom Rose,The Lost Forest,
Japan Resort,Dolphin Island,Kashmir Dreams,Gemini Isle,Bentham Vale,Another day in Paradise,Last Eden ,South of Heaven,The Witches Forest,Wicca,Shadow Realm, Shadow Forest,
Epic Toy Factory,Areumdeuli,Raven Falls,Elorian Gardens,Sanctum Sanctorum,Forest of Terabithia,Edo: the great wall of china,Fantasy China,PickleFlower,Wildfleur,DarkWood,ElderFlower, Meditation Island,Virtual Africa,Snuggles Forest,Heart Memorial Park,The Nameless Isle


I am more happy for Dane and for us who wants to visit this historic landmark, than I am concerned about the legal implications of the TOS. They did a nice thing, maybe a bit clumsily handled, but still nice.

If Dane would have said "no it is a dead sim, let it rest in peace" then I would be protesting.

LL should (if they know whats good for them) do this more often.

Han Held

Unless I'm mistaken, Dane talked to them before (in 2011) and expressed interest in having them take it over, or at least work something out.

An argument could be made that LL interpreted that as consent to republish.

Judging by Dane's comments here, they were not wrong, either.

If he had been in contact before, then the question of "not asking" doesn't really apply here. If he asked them, they didn't need to ask him.

Han Held

[quote=fred]I am more happy for Dane and for us who wants to visit this historic landmark, than I am concerned about the legal implications of the TOS. They did a nice thing, maybe a bit clumsily handled, but still nice.

If Dane would have said "no it is a dead sim, let it rest in peace" then I would be protesting.[/quote]

Agreed, 100%

Szenzuelza Szondi

Svarga for years was the only sim preserved for a reason it still looks one of a kind and 100% built by it's creator.
TLGOA still looks like crap and did long before it closed.
It is a slap in the face for anyone who ever invested in a sim themselves then through overpricing could nolonger afford to keep it.
were is my sim? having paid over 7yrs into it, lost it due to a personnel financial crisis as well.myself and group members it was one of a kind,can we bring back all my hard work and sacrifice please!


Why would anyone protest if someone, after closing a sim and then suddenly finding it re opened years later, were to complain about it, sounds childishly selfish in every way.
It is none of my business how Dane deals with the whole issue of his resurrected sim. I am taking issue with the fact that LL have appeared to demonstrate that they can if they wish re open any sim from the past if they wish to do so. When I had my sims open, if I had found copybot copies of them around (which I frequently did) was I supposed to think, Great now more people can get to my sims because there are more copies. The issue is surly to do with permissions and the fact that a platform provider has some kind of responsibility to their customers to protect their property, not re use it when the creator has gone. Epic don't go around re releasing other game companies games just because they they used their engine to create them. There is a real crap attitude to property in SL. Like someone once told me when I confronted them about stealing my whole sim, what was I worried about, anyone can build.


We should be trying to show new residents the possibilities mesh and other things can do to create deep immersive social experiences!

Instead, we have a bunch of people playing grandpa & grandma trying to boringly show newer gamer 'the deeper meaning of the sacred garden'
when it looks like the biggest turd ever! now 2016 users on the internet ain't got time for that.


We I don't see any reason to resurrect it anyway when there is a perfectly good copy already in existence in the Lost Gardens of Apollo Memorial. Looks exactly the same, someone had made a great copy. LL should just put that up on the "what's hot now" and no one will ever go there again. And Grizzly is of course right, how about showing what is possible now rather than pandering to us old nostalgia laden SL anoraks.

Scottie Menges

Thanks to the poster who fondly remembers The Pillars=)
just a few corrections: it was created a few years after Dane created his sim,if Dane got his sim back then more power to him,hopefully he keeps in mind they are only doing it for their needs not his.as for me closing my home,well, I never did. after going on vacation for six weeks once back finding the region offline,putting in a ticket with a few phone calls it was confirmed they had lost my home, with too much time passing a backup had not been made.

Linden Lab lost it. then still billed me after the fact =(

Cathartes Aura

A question from the cheap seats high up in the rafters where us winged horrors like to hang out...

What happens when LL does this to someone's long gone build that absolutely does not want to see it back up and most importantly having it be under LL control?

So, LL gets to indirectly make revenue off of other peoples "works of art" without LL compensating the people that created those "works of art".

Sounds really f#%ked up to me... ;)

What's next? They take control of your avatar and use it? Use your avatar to earn revenue for LL? Bring back good old Amsterdam red light and whore you out for $L. After all they own you too. You don't own you.

And the Turkey Buzzard goes... Hiss


Feeling somewhat homeless myself-_-

were do we sign up for the lindens to bring back our old regions?

Garden of Absentia we spent tens of thousands of dollars over eight years

possible for me to find a few thousand witness to prove it was a landmark as well

if not it just proves linden labs only cares about a handful of people and fuck the rest of us

 Alexsandro Pomposelli


LL decides what residents creations were important or not - come over to OpenSim then you will never lose your land again.

 Alexsandro Pomposelli

@Scottie Menges

You can rebuild in OpenSim for free plus back everything up yourself.

 Alexsandro Pomposelli

@Chester Oh

very long suckers list and in the end LL got free resident welfare to make their product look good.

@Dane Zander

Good to be King


"come over to OpenSim then you will never lose your land again."
And you will also be able to sit there and watch the tumble weed blow through and listen to the crickets in peace and quiet all alone.


After reading the discussion here in the comments, I come to the conclusion that mankind is completely deranged.


When you find yourself calling all of mankind deranged, you should consider the possibility that they are all in fact sane and it is you who who is deranged. This is what the Doctor here tells me. I tell him that I am perfectly sane and cannot understand why I am locked in the this padded cell with only a lap top and my dolly Sarah Jane who tells me what to write here.

Avatar Headline Generator

-Lost Gardens Of Butt Hurt-
-Greenies Butt Hurt HQ-
-Butthurt Manor-
-Forest Of Butthurt-
-Mysterious Butthurt-
-Butthurt Town-
-Pillers Of Butthurt-
-Photons Butthurt-
-Elven Butthurt-
-Japan Butthurt Project-
-Pathfinder Butthurt-
-Lost Butthurt-
-Butthurt Santuary-
-Shiny Butthurt-
-City Of Butthurt-
-Epic Butthurt Factory-
-The Great Wall Of Butthurt-


Wow yes! Elven Butthurt, I remember that :)

Cats Eyes

Who is Butthurt?
Dane gets his old sim back after 5 years with the $300 dollars a month tier picked up by linden tax dollars.
if anyone has a problem with it you should have tried harder,created something worth mentioning or remembering,been more creative,been a pioneer to earn that kind of reward.

I for one congratulate Dane for his hard work with sacrifice that very few has ever had to endure while celebrating his victory.

sirhc deSantis

Where do I sign up to follow Avatar Headline Generator..

And Alexsandro Pomposelli (well if it is you) there I was mulling over actually sending in an 'application' for your reanimated grid (what is this ninth time lucky?) what with you sorting out all that 'lost' data :)

Yes I can see all the cons here but if Dane Zander is happy with the result - good luck to them.


@ sirhc deSantis

That's right its all about Dane.

Han Held

"-Epic Butthurt Factory-"
Would be a great alternate name for Second life

"-Butthurt Santuary-"
Opensim definitely provides a sanctuary for all the butthurt that spills over from SL :)

My only question is...how does High Fidelity, Sansar and Space fit in to the picture?

Little Dimple

Personally, this makes me want to leave 2ndlife more now,
nothing we do matters unless someone at linden labs likes us,
considering canceling my account now after seeing the clarity it being nothing more then a rigged game.

Professor D

Raising the dead after near 6 years is very telling about the current state of SL and were it appears to be heading.

The Walking Bread

At JohnC
why not instead use free tier to reward current attractive places each month at random in some new raffle or program.?

"We I don't see any reason to resurrect it anyway when there is a perfectly good copy already in existence in the Lost Gardens of Apollo Memorial. Looks exactly the same, someone had made a great copy. LL should just put that up on the "what's hot now" and no one will ever go there again"

Would make sense considering they have been building a community over the last two years.

Minetheree Athanasios

Congratulations Dane! I think it is great that SL has done this, for whatever reasons...Artistry in SL and Opensim is wonderful in all its forms and shows a taste to outsiders of what can be done, regardless of where and why.

To my thinking, those who don't like this, for one reason or another, should rethink what it is they really want. Others should rethink what Opensim really offers in this regard...it hardly matters if there are less people to appreciate it. OpenSim, and the majority connected via the hypergrid have learned one very interesting thing....they built because they wanted to, and for the joy of building-- EVEN IF ONLY VISITED BY FEW PEOPLE--

In these things I often always see so much anger or resentment or meanness it seems to always miss the point.

http://opensimworld.com/user/Ferdzee shows where the owner of Phaze Demesnes is at now, and enjoying it.

https://plus.google.com/113904954583860050633/posts/MDu8TRdcAoy references Hobo Amusement Park.

And of course as already mentioned http://opensimworld.com/hop/75423-The-Lost-Gardens-of-Apollo

It seems to me that people who want to can have the best of both worlds. In Opensim you can build a region or build on larger varregions and save it all to your own computer, the entire build with terrain intack.

So it is all a win-win really. Once saved it can then be uploaded to any other opensim place (or run on your own self made grid).

Here are a few others that may interest the readers here:


People DO appreciate this, wherever it is, and it is pretty cool also.

I am so happy you get this opportunity again Dane...I for one have really enjoyed the one in the Metropolis grid...it is said that:

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. --Charles Caleb Colton"


The Walking Bread
My comment was sarcasm, as the memorial version looks to be a copy bot version. if not then the builder bought the exact same texture set and had intimate precise knowledge of the original build.

Ingrid ingersoll

Someone ressurected me and I didn't even know it!


"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. --Charles Caleb Colton"
Yes I know this saying well, it has been quoted to me by people who have copyboted my stuff.
It is more often than not used as a weak excuse to profit from other people creativity, usually only after they have been caught in the act.


I'd like to add my 2 cents worth, for what its worth.

I was in SL for some years.

I enjoyed my time there, when I was there, but essentially I *out-grew SL*

The Lost Gardens of Apollo was one of my fave hang out places.

I used to go there with friends, or sometimes alone, when i just needed to chill and collect my thoughts.

I remember seeing Dane there one day, and giving him some Lindens, to show my thanks for his nice build.

I think the important thing to remember, is, whether your an SL'er or an Opensim'er, its all good. There's far more that binds us together in our virtual worlds, than which separates us, regardless of your views of either platform.

From my perspective, Linden has done a good thing, albeit, in a clumsy way, in bringing back the Gardens.

For those of you not familiar with things Opensim related, Dane actually gave the original textures he used to create the original Lost Gardens to Delphi for her lovely re-creation of the Gardens in OpenSim.

My hat is proverbially off to both Dane and Delphi, as well as Linden Labs (to a lesser degree) for making this happen.

The important point to note, I think is, no matter what virtual world you decide to inhabit, do try and play nicely with others.


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