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Monday, July 10, 2017

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Just Say'n

The key problem? Allowing too much power to an anonymous (since they're only known by their SL names) committee of users.

Well duh it's for SL residents!... 3rd party viewer developers/staff & moles can be brought in to help the LEA staff find solutions and compromises made.

These tin-foil hat conspiracies of trying to bring residents down she does helps destroy our world a little more each time.(No one responded to Cake putting up her story at SLU for a reason, so think about that)

Chic Aeon

I am completely against any kind of "public vote" as I have watched OH SO MANY TIMES AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN be one person in many modes voting many times (like for themselves? - Yep).

I have no idea who "staff" would be in this instance but I suggest that if their IS a "staff" that they simply contact the LEA and ask to be considered for a seat on the advisory committee.

Really? This is just dumb.

So some anonymous PUBLIC gets to vote but has no need to do any of the work after, supporting the artists, answering questions, solving conflicts? That's a great deal for that anonymous public.

Obviously you cannot know what goes on behind the scenes -- hence, really, you have no idea how silly your ideas are.

At least I got a chuckle out of it.

Go forth and make more drama. (Insert sigh here).

Wagner J Au

"OH SO MANY TIMES AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN be one person in many modes voting many times (like for themselves? - Yep"

In the SXSW Panel Picker, voting requires registering for an account. The SL web portal already requires username/password log-in. Problem solved. Also, that's another reason to give LEA staff and advisors a vote that can outweigh the public -- to overrule obvious ballot stuffing for a mediocre submission.

Bufje

the only right thing to do now is fire this fake committee and restart, again (as already happened in 2012). The real problem is that no one between the persons well know and qualified for do this work in SL want do, so it will always be a mediocre thing with mediocre people fighting for the supreme power. I find the schema correct, lowering public votes or giving less weight, can be also a manner for make some promotion and make more popular LEA, that today is mostly ignored by residents.

Just Say'n

Bufje
"the only right thing to do now is fire this fake committee"

it's trouble makers like cake and yourself who are more then happy to destroy something but when the time comes to sacrifice your own time, have many hours of work unrecognized, the pat in the back becomes far and inbetween, you will scatter like roach's as the instant gratification is not there.. cake will not stick around to long as madness takes over with her leaving to find other residents to stalk & harass so she can roleplay her schizophrenic personality of being a cop "busting residents".


Bufje

Why troublemaker? I don't want destroy something, i want that the process is transparent and well working. No one have asked or forced this people to do this work, is a choice and they like a lot to do in the name of "art". I don't care much about fights and so, but i care about transparency and the work of committee, this in particular, is very hidden and almost secret. Is bad, very bad. LEA is not UWA or a private thing, is a community benefit payed by the community. Is so difficult, for example, make for each project presented a note with the votes, who voted what and why, and make this public? Is the minimum i think, for respect to proponents at least. No, they hide under anonymity all, "the group voted". Is a fake, is time that LEA become adult and transparent. Just take a look at the welcome area and tell me honestly if is possible that a project of this type can be builded in this noob manner by a component of the committee. What they can judge? And who want be judged by noobs presumptous and incompetent like these?

Fred

I might be terribly ignorant but overall has not LEA worked pretty well? I have visited a few sims over the years. Can someone please explain coherently what the problem is, and dont give me any "hurt feelings" arguments, I want some actual problems.

Bufje

The big problem is the lack of transparency of committee mechanism, not some good works that is possibile see in LEA. But you can see good works in all SL, luckily is not a exclusive right of LEA.

Cake/Aemeth

There's an indie comic and zine festival called SPX that's very popular. So popular, table spaces fill up for it fast and the wait list is always long. In order to solve the problem of who gets to table there, SPX created this solution:

Part of the tabling artists are selected. Part of it is a lottery. It guarantees that while some work is curated, others are completely random as long as they pass basic requirements to fill a space.

I think tossing in a random lottery is a great idea. Those who can't get selected can still hope to win the lottery for a land grant. As long as they pass basic rules. Then those who got a land grant last time are withheld from applying again for a certain time period, lets other people move forward to get their chance if they want to.

IMO a committee would largely be janitors. The committee itself would just clean up land, make sure people behave... that's it. If it were up to me, that's all they would do. If they wanted to ban someone for something, they would need to write up who they banned and why and pass that to the Lindens who are involved in that program. This is often done for other groups for the sake of paperwork.

Jessie

Cake we need to make sure everyone of them is banned being removed from the grid, including any alts, this whole fake alt committee must go, they should be banned from Sansar as well, this is not an easy task with us needing all readers here to send in abuse reports on the LEA committee members including staff (See posts by Bufje for names), we also need residents who might be willing to go incognito to help further expose the deceit by LEA Management with you willing to sign a statement given to the lindens.

we have not came across this much corruption since we exposed the bestiality/child sex slave trade by LisaWarmAnimations, so we need everyone's help to make our world safe for everyone.

Fred

Ok so everything seems to be running fine but some are not happy with lack of transparency. Well if its not broken there is no need to fix it, introducing voting is not something that should be taken lightly we all know what can of worms that is. And before we know it someone with political agendas will try to play the voting system in their favour and then another can of worms pops open.

FreeWee Ling

Ech.. I haven't read all the comments, but I did want to chime in on this. I agree that the process of selecting LEA artists is flawed, but the main problem is that no one really wants to work that hard to make it better. I've been approached a few times over the years to be on the LEA Committee, but have always declined because: a. it would disqualify me from applying for LEA sims myself, b. I didn't want to be part of the petty squabbling about the committee and its decisions, and c. it's a commitment of time and energy that I simply can't sustain above the other things I do.

If anyone thinks serving on the LEA committee is a power trip they should really think about what it means. These people are artist volunteers. They are not themselves associated with Linden Lab. Maintaining 20+ sims full of cranky artists is a big time commitment. I'm grateful that there are people willing to do the job, because I'm not. The committee is only as good as the people willing to serve. My feeling is that the current committee is too small, but I would wager that's because it's hard to find qualified people. (If you think you're qualified to help and are willing to spend the time, let them know!)

In the end the committee relies on the community to submit great proposals. They always have a lot of outstanding builds and also a lot of not so great ones. It's especially hard to know if someone without experience working on that scale can pull something off. It doesn't always work, but it's often worth the gamble.

As for public voting, I would be strongly against that. Majority rule just turns it into a popularity contest with people campaigning for their proposals. This does not produce quality. And if you can find a an advisory body of qualified curators, go for it. I'd love to learn how you do it.

irihapeti

If was me then:

There is an August Body of Eminent Persons (members) who rank vote the submissions. The August Body is everyone who has been an LEA exhibitor.

Additionally the August Body elects 3 further people to the August Body each year.

Once a member of the August Body then always a member, in perpetuity. Cancellation by resignation or account deletion. Membership is not transferable (like to alts even)

The August Body also elects a Curator (2 year term). A Curator candidate can be anyone. Who may or may not, be an existing member of the August Body.

The Curator cannot make a submission to exhibit their own work.

The August Body members don't do anything other than vote on submissions, elect the 3 further members, and elect the Curator.

The August Body membership will grow over time into the 100s. As it should.

The Curator appoints Volunteers to help them manage the sims on a daily basis. Volunteers similar to SLB, Mentors, etc. Volunteers can be anyone. An August Body member is not expected to be a volunteer. They may volunteer at times but is not expected of them to do this.

Volunteers in the main typically turn out to be art supporters whom are not always accomplished exhibition artists. They just love art, organizing and helping out when they can. A pathway for these people is: Volunteer -> Election to the August Body as 1 of the 3.

Typically also people who win the Curator election will have come thru the Volunteer ranks.

What most orgs like LEA find out eventually is that in itself being a great artist doesn't make one a good organizer/curator. Being a great volunteer who actually helps organize stuff makes a good organizer.

Where good artists who have previously exhibited, can make a certifiably important ongoing contribution is in voting submissions and elections.

Chic Aeon

FreeWee said it perfectly and I know that "I" for one asked her to be on the LEA committee a few years back. I am sure others did too.

As I said, and FreeWee said, if you think you can do a better job and have qualifications, then throw your hat in the ring.

Complaining about something is not the same as stepping up and doing it better. I suggest that some of the folks that want to help the arts get together and form their own committee and do things the way THEY see fit rather than trying to take down an establishment that has done a lot of good over the years.

And, my sims have had as much as 7,000 traffic count on some days, so people DO VISIT LEA sims. If you don't? Well that is your choice.

irihapeti

@Chic

I think you are over-protesting it a little bit

There are 16,000+ sims, plus mainland parcels, on the grid today and each of them are 3D graphic art installations to varying standards. When you say people should stop scrutinising what the LEA committee does, and just start their own art group then people do that already over 16,000+ times. And they pay for their art installations also, unlike the LEA.

The LEA is run like a closed shop on a who-you-know basis. As you say yourself: you yourself exhibit for free on LEA sims, and people you have recommended have been invited by the LEA committee to join the LEA as a committee member. A committee that decides who gets to exhibit.

Now while you obviously think you are deserving of this, as you put yourself out there, and work hard at your craft and are a competent graphics artist, thats all you have and are. This doesn't entitle you tell people who scrutinise the way the LEA is setup to go fcuk themselves, no matter how polite aggressive you say it.

Bufje

@FreeWee you represent well the situation, you are a living example for demonstrate why LEA committee don't work. And you are also a bit presumptous i think. Well, and you are another UWA employee... but, tell us, why they asked you to be part of this committee? And why they don't leave this chair if the work is so heavy and difficult and painful? After so long time is a good idea change air and leave. Ot they have nothing other do do in SL than do the committee?
@Fred, if you think that the lack of transparency is the only and a small problem, well, time to change work. What you describe is what happen in hidden places where the committee take decisions. Zero respect for the artists, worried about that someone take over the voting system... so happy mood in the committee.

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