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Friday, August 25, 2017

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Blue Dot

"cultural appropriation", "white privilege", "you can't be like me", in the previous post there were comments of black skinned folks talking of white skinned folks like if they were an alien race from another galaxy, because of their color of the skin. Folks, that's a racist mindset, don't you realize that? Culturally there is more difference between a Russian and an American than a black American and a white American. Do you know how people live in Congo or South Sudan IRL? Pygmy? Tutsi? Black what? This racial hysteria even in virtual worlds now? And assuming black shaming intentions? Do you believe it is white shaming and cultural appropriation if you get a white skin? Who do you shame with an Asian avatar? And a blue furry? Racism sux, but going too far and getting extreme just polarizes everything by reflex. Then all you get is Trump and alt-right. Then things sux even more and nobody listens to anyone anymore.
It's a virtual world, folks! People try things out. They may even learn something from experimenting. Or they are as they are because they feel good as it. They do anything for any reason. But you assume it's cultural appropriation, you have prejudices, you are attacking people for how they are in a virtual world, do you realize that? Live and let live.

Ernie Farstrider

Cultural appropriation? If so, it must be both or all directions ... and in those terms an issue settled years and years ago. I think the issue is bogus for that reason and bogus because posing as someone you are not in RL is a great way to learn how tight that person's shoes and skin and culture might be for you and for others. Cal St Chico sends its future teachers out to learn SL and then when they become competent, they are asked to switch genders. The males learn quite a bit about their own asymmetric culture that way.

Annie Oh

"uniquely qualified"?

MK

Many people also use Asian avatars. Also white skin, dark skin, robot, animal, or a stickman. So what is the big deal? You can be anyone and be anything you fancy in a virtual world. I think some people think too much. As long as you are respectful of the avatar you chose, it shouldn't be anyone's concern. I know a psycho who stalks his ex-girlfriend who has dumped him. He created her avatar and abuses it. THAT is a wrong use of avatars.

Masami Kuramoto

As a 6'10" person in RL, I feel strongly about short people making their avatars taller than mine. Oh, an don't get me started about fat people making themselves skinny in virtual worlds!

This is about more than just skin color. Genetic appropriation comes in many forms, and we need to raise public awareness of this abuse which has traumatized the lives of so many beautiful people.

Aliasi Stonebender

Lot of people leaping to conclusions, here. It's probably not a great idea to be white, wear a black avatar, and act in a stereotypical manner.

On the other hand, within the bounds of more serious roleplay areas, or 'avatar cosplay', or the like, I don't see the 'appropriation'. If I'm playing Black Panther, king of Wakanda, in a superhero RP sim... it's gonna be real weird if I'm not in a dark-skinned avatar, yes? Similarly, if one is wearing it just to try to appreciate it in whatever small way, with honest intent... just being yourself otherwise... that, too, seems more respectful than 'appropriation'.

As already noted, plenty of folks get a rough time not presenting as generically white in a lot of Second Life as is. I'd rather encourage more diversity than less.

Clara Seller

Perhaps now, we can have a serious conversation about the "Kardashian-sized rumps" that have been epidemic in the SL community.

This representation of female body proportion is a mocking assault on those minority of women who have to live their life with excessively focused junk in their trunk. What give's anyone the right to take these women's burdens and challenges and to nonchalantly use it as a tool for their own frivolous entertainment? It's appalling that mesh creators have not put limitations on people's abilities to perpetuate this atrocity. They are enablers of low virtue, unlike myself.

Arwyn Quandry

If you're doing a black avatar to play into racist stereotypes about black people, yes, you should think twice and reconsider. On the other hand, if you're just wear a black skin and are a normal person, no, there's nothing appropriating or racist about it.

I'm white IRL. I've had a black avatar since near the beginning of my time in SL. When I started, I was on the old teen grid and there was a severe lack of diversity, so I was trying different types of avatars just to see how people would react, including different skin colors. What I found was that I was most comfortable and felt most like 'me' when my avatar was black. It stuck, and nine years later, I only use white skins when I'm roleplaying. I don't feel like I'm myself when I wear them, it feels like putting on a costume. I'm not 'ghetto' or stereotypical. I'm just a person with a different skin color than most people.

Finding good skins is a struggle, especially for my child avatar. Typically, I find a single skin I like and stick with it for years because I can't stand hunting for new ones and being disappointed. I've had people tell me that I should just stop being black because it's easier to be white. The sad thing is, when it comes to finding avatar components, that's true, and it shouldn't be. So many skin makers just do a really dark tan and claim diversity. Dark tan is not black. There's so much more complexity to a black skin than just making it brown.

Ugh

"White devils are stealing our shit!" Yeah, whatever. If you see a person misbehaving in SL, you just report them. Don't overcomplicate things. "Firstly you have to think this, you have to check that, you have to ask yourself.." What a bunch of crap. What else is on your "white person to black avatar transfer" checklist ma'am?..

Conflikted

As a Black person IRL who plays as a Black Avatar, I agree that it is appropriation. It's enough that White people IRL wear other cultures like costumes, but in Second Life? That ramps up the wrong factor. It's especially disgusting if you do it for a racist/creepy troll reason - I've encountered too many of those avatars just going about my business. How about you stop looking at Black skin as "dress-up" and realize that there are real Black people in SL who are not all right with being seen as costumes or "easier" because we're Black.

I'd say to act like you were raised right, but you aren't capable of consideration.

And for those of you crying reverse racism - that doesn't exist. Black/Brown people who are tired of the bullshit and want their own spaces WITHOUT Whites and the brutality they treat us with are merely trying to find safety in a brutal, White Supremacist society.

Nico Sorbet

Cultures are not colors. There are various colors of German people, French people, Mexican people and so on. Who cares what color one is and if it doesn't match the same color, let alone same species, in RL as well. No one is going around being the race police making sure it all matches. That's just ludicrous!

Dusky

/sigh

The whole point of my logging into SL for ten years was to put away my real life experiences past and present, and escape into a virtual world of total creative freedom. I am a mature black American woman in reality.

The common complaint by black people on the main grid back around '08-'09, used to be the lack of high quality skins for people of color. We didn't care who wanted to buy the skins, we just wanted specific content with the same level of quality and variety that designers put into their large collections of white skins.

Now that we have a variety of gorgeous avatar content, I just want to thank all of those skilled and talented artists - the majority of these creators never publicly identified as black in real life - that put in the countless hours to make the artwork something good enough for entitled brats to claim as an exclusive right.

Fred

George Soros money spent on dividing the US country is hard at work.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/

I can't believe people are falling for this race baiting, leftie liberals seem even more obsessed about skin color than the Nazis during WW2 ever was - don't jump on the hate bandwagon people, be smarter than this.

ps. Read history and learn from it, speaking of a desire to create "safe spaces" without people with a certain skin tone has happened before, ask the Jews and other targeted ethnic groups how that turned out. Some comments here must be trolls, surely people can't be that stupid?

ps2. yes I come here for the occassional LOLZ, you guys must really suffer right now under Trump right? :D

Just Say'n


Millions of black people in America who never ever had a single family at anytime in slavery, who immigrated in after 1865. every-time you stereotype all black as disenfranchised victims you have no clue how many people of color you piss off.

Other examples include the millions of replaced red haired people who lived in china 15 thousand years ago, they are not in anyway related to the Irish.

You don't speak for people of color, there are hundreds of millions of "black people" across the globe who are not from Africa at any point ranging from lands as far away as Southern India,Australia,Russia and even one time all of South America was BLACK but not related to African at all, but 99% of them died off or interbred when the endless waves of Asians came across the bearing straits 10k years ago.the last remaining population was in Argentina ending around 1920 when the last full blooded original south American black descendants died off.

My point is people who are black in America of African slavery descendants do not speak for all peoples of color and in case you did not know it other minority's are sick of it including black people who are not African or family who never was from Africa.

Luther

Currently cultural or racial appropriation is only being considered in the very near past by those who claim offense to it. However when we take this "appropriation" back into ancient history we run into real trouble as it will become evident that virtually everyone on earth is appropriating something from some ancient culture or race that is not of their own. Politically correct cultural or racial appropriation can only work if its postured to be recent but it completely fails when applied to human history. Political correctness relies on fraud, deceit and hypocrisy to be successful.

g7l

So if I have black hair in RL and I like to wear red hair or blonde hair in SL, I am appropriating brunettes and blondes??

Bixyl Shuftan

Quite a bit has been stated here. So I'll just try and answer her questions.

Do you know black peoples IRL?

Most of my life from school and community college, to the few years I went to church, to the workplace. Some of my supervisors were black.

Do you think they would be ok with what you do in SL?

In short, yes. The majority of people I talk to in real life, black or white, find it a little difficult to understand what Second Life is.

Do you actively call out the racist thoughts and behavior people have towards a black person, or do you just [say] "LOL I'm white"?

The only example of behavior that *could* have been a comment directed at my appearance in the time I went in a black human avatar was a joke that was so poorly-made, I didn't understand what the "point" was. So I made no response in the short time I was there. What would I have done in the face of obviously racist comments? Probably sarcastic remarks that would have gone over his head, but get people to "LOL" at his expense. Probably. I have yet to encounter this kind of behavior.


Do you think it's cool to be black, but IRL you engage in black shaming, like saying things are "ghetto" or "hood"?

It can be "cool" to be black, if you're talented, just as if it's cool to be white or Asian if you have a talent that makes you stand out, whether it's being an artist, writer, master programmer, college professor, etc. As for referring to something as "ghetto," while I've heard people do that, I personally have no reason to use such terms. They would make me look less intelligent.

Perhaps my outlook was part of my upbringing, at the end of the Cold War. We were all Americans, and allied with peoples across the world in a struggle against a totalitarian enemy bent on denying freedom of any people under it's influence. Black, white, or Asian, Christian, secular, or Muslim, we had to be united to stop the "Evil Empire" as the President at the time called them. Racism wasn't just stupid, it helped our foes by dividing us.

Amanda

Luther has a good point. Cultures aren't static. Appropriation is how culture works.

Bohny Spad

It's amazing to me how many people commenting on this missed the whole point. I am Black and American. I can only speak to the Black American experience and please notice I don't say African American (because I have no connection to my African ancestry and probably have a fair bit of white and "other" mixed in my family line, since half of my great-grand family was light enough to pass as WHITE).

To talk about cultural appropriation and put it into the context of things that happened hundreds and thousands of years ago is to try to diminish the issue. To talk about things that are not cultural, such as hair color, is also an attempt to diminish the issue. To talk about how you have some conspiracy theory related to XYZ person/political party is also an attempt to diminish the issue. IF YOU AREN'T BLACK AND YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE SOME POINT IN THE PAST WE WERE MORE UNITED AS A PEOPLE, YOU ARE TRYING TO DIMINISH THE ISSUE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT TRUE - TRUST ME, I HAVE GRANDPARENTS THAT CAN ATTEST TO THIS.

In REAL LIFE I can not live an be treated comfortably because of the color of my skin. This means I am not able to travel to certain places for fear of what may happen, I am not able to travel at certain times of the day for fear of what may happen,, and when I meet people I have to worry that if I do not act in a way that THEY deem appropriate it will have a negative impact on our interaction. This is fact.

In SECOND LIFE as a BLACK AVATAR I suffer these SAME ISSUES.

If you are NOT BLACK, but go into SL as a BLACK AVATAR you may be doing this because you enjoy Role Playing as a black character, but since you do not have an understanding of the underlying issues of a black person - BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU READ THE WORDS I AM SAYING YOU WILL NEVER LIVE THIS OR FEEL THIS IN YOUR LIFE IF YOU AREN'T BLACK, PERIOD - this is you basically appropriating black culture for fun and when you are done you take it back off.

I am not talking about trolls who come in SL and do grotesque things that you can easily report and mute them for. I'm talking about people whom I talked to on SL for a while and that suddenly feel so comfortable because I'm a "cool black person" that they think it's ok to have their avatar suddenly be black, super muscular/curvaceous, covered in gold bling, and wearing street wear. If you want to wear the clothes and jewelry, cool, but to suddenly change everything about your avatar to completely emulate what you think is BLACK in the most, typically, racist way as possible is beyond offensive.

I am not talking about stuff from the past, I am talking about right now. I'm not talking about every black person's experience all over the world, because I am American and although SL is a game played by people all over the world is was made where, hmmm, America! I didn't say everyone that assumes a black avatar in SL is doing it for the wrong reasons, see the questions I asked and think about how they apply to you and if you think what you're doing is OK then really talk to some of the black people that you say you KNOW and see what they think about it. If you can't talk to the black people that you say you KNOW about this it's probably because you KNOW that what you do is wrong, such as if you do it in SL, but would get backlash for doing it in RL.

FYI - I can role play any character without changing my skin, so you should be able to also!

It'sMyChoice&MySecondLife


Second Life is a fantasy game. Choices belong to the person behind the avatar. As long as that person stays within the TOS of the GAME everything else remains their CHOICE. If they be purple .. let them be purple. You have no right to impose your views and your baggage onto someone else. You play your game and let them play theirs OR perhaps Second Life is NOT where you should be to start with.

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