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Tuesday, March 25, 2008


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CyFishy Traveler

This is quite a shift, considering that the examples of the SL logo that I use on my little newbie site were originally downloaded FROM secondlife.com with the caveat that they could be used as long as properly disclaimered, which I did. Now they've apparently gone and changed the rules, only they've made it a hell of a lot more confusing to figure out what precisely I'm allowed to do here.

As ardent a Second Life cheerleader as I've been, I'm obviously not too happy with this turn of events.

Adz Childs

Yes, CyFishy. that's exactly right. I made my fansite in compliance with the old rules when I created it a year ago. Even though the old rules have disappeared into the memory hole, the fansite toolkit I used to make SLNameWatch.com comply with the original rules persists. http://static.secondlife.com/downloads/SL_fansite_toolkit_2.0.zip
Naturally, inside the zip file there is an Eye-In-Hand logo(tm).

Efemera Bisiani

Maybe it's just some weird coincidence, but I notice that already today I can't access secondlife.isfullofcrap.com or lindenlifestyles.com, even tho posts for both are appearing on the worldofsl.com. One I thought was kinda spookily poetic, but two, damn, that's a conspiracy! Isn't it? Pllllease? And eep, scary thought, what if fashionplanet goes down too?!

Ann Otoole

So stop gearing web presence to one video game company and gear/name towards the future of the metaverse. Someone doesn't want any publicity? fine. erase all mention of them from the internet and request the search engines clear out the cache. see how much that helps a company that turns on it's supporters.

doesn't matter really. i'm not using stupid little symbols in types sentences. so i will never mention them again by mark.

dandellion Kimban

Once again that company is doing things in the worst imaginable way. What they are trying to achieve? To cut all the marketing that residents and bloggers are doing them for free? Point of trademarking is to protect the company, product and users, but it seems like somebody doesn't get it. I don't have much doubts that they intended something different from what they got, but, once again in history, somebody was very clumzy.


Read about this last night. As my main focus was regarding the view of an Uru player on other worlds, this is not a huge impact to me.

However, this will impede somewhat on a project I was trying to liftoff due to Uru's Second Shutdown. (Hamlet, you will be getting a notecard by end of week - I hope.)

--Timothy Kimball
aka Alan Kiesler

Eggy Lippmann

change => panic


Second Life Logo and Brand - Topic Digest http://yolto.com/FeedTopic.aspx?Id=515

Laetizia Coronet

Well then, if they don't want the exposure they've been having, I suggest we don't give it to them anymore.
They've branded every normal reference to their virtual world, including all abbreviations. I propose LVW as an alternative. L for you-know-who, and VW for virtual world. Or maybe we can go French on them, since they are already so monolithically English (for example in their PG policies, their word banning practices), and refer to their world as La Seconde Vie.

And how to refer to a member of their staff? Torley Linden(tm)? Mia Linden(r)?

And what's the view of legal eagles on this? Can you do that after five years of allowing the practice?

Calixus Voom

Well besides the fact that exactly the free use of the logo and brand by each and everyone has made Second Life popular, this seems like another kick in the lane of "lets see if we can not run down the place entirely". I really sometimes ask myself if SL (oops, I said it again) isn't a microeconomics study with the goal to find out what it takes to make a market break down. May we live in interesting times.

Arcadian Vanalten

*sigh* I usually shoot for being the voice of reason in these sky-is-falling dramas we seem to have have around here, but I gotta say, over the past months, LL (sorry, I don't know how to make the stupid symbol on my keyboard--sue me later) seems to be committing community relations mis-steps with a steadily increasing frequency. On my blog, I reference that I'm a Second Life Mentor--a group created and named by Those Who Now Cannot Be Named and to which I've been invited by Them. As a legitimate member, can I use it in my "about me" section now? I REFUSE to bug my attorney about use of a word in a silly non-profit blog about an online timekiller.

Ann Otoole

It may be important to keep in mind that there are two enforcement aspect to this situation.

From the TOS Section 4.4: "Except for the licenses expressly granted there or in a separate written agreement signed by you and Linden Lab, Linden Lab reserves all right, title, and interest in the Linden Lab Marks and does not authorize you to display or use any Linden Lab Mark in any manner whatsoever."

So the video game company can ban you for using any of their marks "in any manner whatsoever". and they don't need a lawyer to do that. this is different from the real legal aspects of brand protection in that some low level video game company employee can push the ban button on an account that wrote the "marks" somewhere on the internet. not to mention that it is now like the personal use of company phone thing at most companies. they never enforce it. until they need a legal excuse to get rid of someone and they don't want to be sued for any number of possible abuses. they simply pull out the phone records and boom it is done.

people have been writing those marks for yars out there. now almost anyone who has written about the video game can be banned for it. there is also that inevitable section in the legal area regarding saying bad things about the videogame company. microsoft tried this strong arm tactic. didn't work out too well for them. fair use goes a long way.

but really.. the test comes in 3 or 4 months. then we get to see if someone with a legal counsel budget decides to try the case of whether or not the lack of brand defense for 5 years makes any difference.

I do think they should clearly state a relaxed policy on general references in writings on the internet (blogs, stories, opinions, etc.; not stuff that is cleartly commercial in nature). that would clear up a lot of anxiety and score back some good will points.

Nexus Burbclave

Perhaps we should all just adopt The Register's use of Sadville?

Nexus Burbclave

Perhaps we should all just adopt The Register's use of Sadville?

Elle Pollack

Someone should point out that casual conversations like what were doing here falls under Fair Use and the policy provides for it. Therefore very little of this is relaxant to Joe Average. It's people who run websites and people in Sy business (me) that hare to worry. In my case-it's just a nucence that I have to do extra work to update my portfolio page to be compliant. Obviously certian longer established websites have a much bigger issue on their hands.

Laetizia Coronet

Hang on a minute... how much of what's being stamped (tm) is actually theirs? We know the Lab was founded in San Francisco's Linden Street, and we know Rosedale visited Burning Man, about the time when Dan Lyke was there as well (2000 and 2002, with that mask).
Of course it's the design which counts, and it's trademarking, not copyrighting as intellectual property... but it would suit the Lab to tone down the rhetoric a little. After all, none of it is really yours, is it?

Arcadian Vanalten

Yeah, good point.My blog has no commercial purpose; closest I get to that is noting my performance schedules in various clubs I DJ in.

Another thought--there is open use of the marks by journalists. One could argue that bloggers are covered under that, as they're often classed as de facto journalists. There's not actually any sort of journalist licence or certification I'm aware of (and I have LOTS of friends who are RL journalists). It's defined largely by the nature of the activity you engage in. Provided that you're doing a news-related kinda story, would that be considered safe? *again resists urge to bug attorney, but does glance reflexively at the sky*

Dusan Writer

I understand the need to protect brand identities, what galls me with all of this is that I feel I've been manipulated by the introduction of a useless NEW logo which felt like it was being introduced as cover for, well, covering their butts on their trademark. I got a nice warm tremble when I saw the blog header about a new "brand center" - only to discover that it was just a few paragraphs of text and links to a bunch of legal stuff.

As I've posted elsewhere, it felt as if they had sent the community a Trojan horse - hey, look kids! A new logo you can use! (Queue tribal drum beats and release the lawyers).

What galls me even FURTHER is that the new logo is HORRIBLE. If I'm using it to promote SL(R) activities to the 'outer world' it has NO meaning, communicates nothing, and it's only the missing "T" that prevents it from being downright inSL-Ting.

Mind you, gave me a good chance for an imaginary conversation with a client, which I will shamelessly now link to.


Dusan Writer (TM)

Arcadian Vanalten

OK, knee has jerked, reflexive panic has subsided a bit. Good point on the fair use statute. I bet the guy who TM'ed "SLArt" is freaking, but provided it's a non-commercial enterprise, I think blogs SHOULD be ok w/ mentioning the name, under the same standard that protects us from trouble if in passing we mentioned that for lunch we had McDo---AAaaack! *gets collared and hauled off abruptly by a bunch of black-clad attorneys wearing red frizzy wigs*


I'm personally not worried about the new logo, since I don't use any of those, and never will. I don't use the weblog for anything other than my own rambling notes - and hey, if anyone else reads them, have fun and for goodness sake leave a comment or a ping/TB. ;)

If anyone has a bone to pick with the site, it would actually be Shuttle, since I've pulled no punches regarding the case I used to have. Mind ya, I have been banned from posting or tracking in 2L's official weblog (for reasons uncertain and early in its existence), so go figure.

I'm just not happy that it has to come about, just as I'm finally stepping up into this community again to help my fellow Uru members who've decided this would be a nice place to move to. I suppose this is better than it happening afterwards, but the document intends to be a 'living' one and will hopefully include the most popular worlds that our group chooses (There.com is already being worked out for inclusion). It's just that 2L would be the easiest for me, with almost four years of experience of the place's ups and downs. 'Wonder if I can get WikiLeaks to host it... ;-)

@ Eggy -> True, but for once this is different. Most changes within 2L have been internal to the place, and did not affect anything truly external. They're now effectively threatening ISP and hosting customers with DMCA-based takedowns, for things which cost real money to create and maintain and have no actual connection to 2L other than the use of names and/or viewable content. Probably in some cases, enough money to justify fighting back.

The Uru community went through the same thing a few years back when Cyan suddenly sent a reminder that their assets were protected, and that new Ages being worked on should be approved by their Legal before publicly hosting (yes, that's been possible for a while now). Sure there was some grumbling, but most happily sent emails out and got their approval ID numbers within a few months (and some content - like Ahra Pahts - is beginning to rival that of Cyan's own work).

--Tim Kimball
aka Alan Kiesler

Ian Betteridge

Ann, this is nothing to do with giving them a cause to ban you: they already have clause 2.6 of the ToS, which lets them ban for you any reason at all.


I love it! I have been quoted by Wagner James Au, who has been quoted by Old Man Murray. That's like two degrees removed from immortality.

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