« New World Tableau: The "Rancor" of Cienega Soon | Main | Nexeus' Venture: Open Source Content For The Metaverse »

Tuesday, July 08, 2008


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

CyFishy Traveler

So, in other words, he has less interest in what this world has actually become than he does in shaping it into what he still thinks it should be.


Roland Hesz

"Before voice came into Second Life, when people got together... they communicated through text chat. That was very exhilarating the first time you did that, and it worked really well in many circumstances for many people... and I never liked it. "

Yes, unlike the deaf and mute people who could feel equal at last. And those whose native is not English and does not feel comfortable with talking. And....

You can continue for a while I think.

"When we saw the incredibly widespread adoption of voice chat"
Where? A lot of people still stick to text. Language barrier again. He tends to forget SL is international, ie. the majority does not speak english too well.

"There's a lot of other meta information that's filtered of our avatar to avatar encounters, and what's missing today is things like body language and gesture and facial expression."
Which is actually good if you go to an RP SIM. Weird, but most of the tough mercenaries are not mercenaries in RL and does not sound as cool as in text.

I like voice, we used to have immense fun with friends over voice in SL.
But voice takes away from the "make believe" bits. People come here to be someone else, not to play themselves over and over again.

I just hope voice, real life looking avies and videocam won't be mandatory. Then it won't be different from Skype.

Or, SL will be "His world, His imagination"?

Morris Vig

I've offered my thoughts on my blog.

@Roland - I think it's "His world, our imagination." At least for the time being.

How's OpenSim coming along?

Nika Dreamscape

I talked about issue #3 in more detail on my blog.. but regarding the $10,000 prize payable in Lindens, I'm wondering what practices are put in place currently to prevent 'money laundering'.. or in other words, what keeps eople who work at Linden Labs from crediting certain accounts with $L and then cashing it out into real currancy.. and if something like this will result in new laws being someday passed to prevent virtual money from being converted or traded in for real money. (I'm more coherant with my points in my blog.)

Laetizia Coronet

Yep, agreed with the above comments. Kapor seems to embody the erroneous ways of the Lab in that Resident voices are listened to (ole Mitch loves Voice!) but not heard.
Their world, their imagination, our never ending source of frustration.

Mitch Wagner

Linden Lab is sounding more and more like the management of the GEnie online service in the 90s. Like LL, GEnie management was convinced that its user base was a bunch of misfits, not representative of the needs and desires of the millions of people who would be flocking to the service *any* *day* *now.* Look how that worked out.

Marianne McCann

Cy and Mitch hit it on the head. The level of hubris, and "knowing what's best for the userbase" can hurt them greatly.

Are we seeing shifts in the userbase? You bet. Are they what Mitch thinks? Not so much.

Maxx Monde

One comment stood out - "disenfranchised", etc.. whether his intent was to alienate the people funding Linden Lab, he certainly dropped a big fat no-clue bomb right there.

It seemed to be the last thing you'd want to say to the people paying the bills.

Is Linden Lab *that* out of touch?

Marianne McCann

Some further thoughts:


Tateru Nino

You'd think the Linden Prize would have rated more than 2.5 minutes of talk-time, but maybe the main *audience* of the prize are not SL users.

BJ Tabor

Gestures and expression would be nice. But outside doing something serious, like a business meetings in SL, forget voice. I have heard it, it ruins the magic. There is a reason why people still read books.

Corcosman Voom

Re: #1

I read the talk in text. It seemed to me he was simply remarking on the passage of time and noting the manner in which the internet changed once the 'pragmatic' users figured out how the net could work for them. Just noting some past history and his observation that he thinks SL, or perhaps 3D virtual reality, is approaching that cusp.

Personally, I can't see it on the very near horizon.

I didn't take it as a hint of changes being imposed by the Lab but a reflection on change being inevitable with the passage of time and a wider user base.

Mitch Wagner

Seems to me that Kapor is half-right. The freaks and people who have too much time on their hands pioneer the use of Internet technologies.

Then the businesses, schools, and government agencies move in and clean the place up and get everything sober and button-down.

Kapor is right about that much.

But what he didn't say is that the sober, button-down period is short-lived. Because nobody cares what they're doing.

And then the freaks, crazies, and people with too much time on their hands come in and build the *really* successful businesses, technologies, and services on the Internet.

Or did Kapor think that Amazon, Google, and YouTube were founded by the Fortune 500.

Hell's bells, Kapor himself was a freak when he invented Lotus 1-2-3.

He really ought to know better.

CyFishy Traveler

Okay, I actually watched the thing from beginning to end and it isn't quite as bad as I feared it might be.

It's quite telling that he brings up the example of a student who complained about those damn aol.com noobs who don't know what's what. I suspect that's what he really meant by the end of the frontier era in SL. The "community-disturbing regulations and implementations coming soon" turned out, judging by what I'm reading in the transcript to be things like improving the robustness of the platform and improving the ease of learning and ease of use so more people can enjoy it and it has to extend and evolve both the technical architecture and governance to better support the great diversity of purposes and uses that people have.

In other words, his intent appears to make the place a little more user friendly, so that The Summer That Never Ends will begin in SL. Given that things like stability and ease of use are things that Resis have been screaming about for ages, I'm not seeing a huge problem with this.

I'm not sure how feasible it is, mind you. I think there's a lot that has to be fixed on their end before they start talking about The Grand Future, but that's just me.

Also, even though he did express his preference for voice, he did acknowledge that text was still optimal for many situations in SL. And when he gave an example of a more realistic avatar, I noticed that the phrase he used was the ability to look more like yourself when you want to, would be a positively good thing. (Emphasis added.)

So, in short, it's not nearly as bad as people (including myself, mea culpa) were making it out to be.

So I guess I'll go pick up my Linden Cheerleader pom-poms again . . . ;)

Pavig Lok

I think... well, speech breakdown was kinda like this:
5 minutes of nostalgia for the old times.
15 minutes of the "early adopters vs serious folks" speech we have from most emerging companies.
5 minutes of interesting tech demos that were only marginally related to sl but kinda in the ballpark.
2.5 minutes of "oh by the way we're giving money to people"

Out of Mitch I was hoping for more, specifically about the direction LL is taking over the next year. Methinks "straighter and somewhat less free" doesn't quite prepare us for what's to come. If Mitch sees SL as a disruptive technology that's great, but we know he's thrown his weight behind other disruptive platforms (Chandler project for instance) which were similarly brilliant but went nowhere. From the Keynote we come out not much wiser about that direction.

LL has a lot of acumen behind them but seems to be hiding their strategy from their stakeholders. SL5B marks a new year in SL and I would have liked to see some solid announcements about their direction for the coming year, rather than a kinda handwave to the possibilities. Whilst I don't think the speech was content free, I think it was a missed opportunity for one of the directors to clarify LL's coming strategies.

We can be patient with the lab if we can see a strong direction in the future which builds positive momentum for change. Without this clear direction from the top it is hard to remain positive through rougher times. In a period of change like this we really need very strong leadership from LL, and whilst mister Kapor pointed at changes to come, he missed a chance while he had our attention to give us a clear outline of what to expect.

Just my two cents.

David Cartier

The only time Mitch Kapor really logs into SL he's a guest panelist or speaker during meetings and fora during whuch voice is great - voice is nearly essential. Let him log in as Mitchelina, sometime and he can see how voice really enhances that experience.

Tristin Mikazuki

I wounder if Mitch is mentally not able to keep up and no I'm not jokeing either.
Early adopters in any field are there for the high tech being on the edge of which SL isnt any more. It just takes a high end machine to run it but the whole think is still a glossy Active Worlds with a RCE.
I'm still stunned he insulted the user base like that really blew me away.. I think Mitch needs to get off the board and get someone with a clue there.

Tristin Mikazuki

I wish we could edit our posts here lol

One thing I forgot to mention IF I was on LL's board I would be either looking for a way to get Mitch off or to leave myself he is WAY to out of touch with the metaverse!

Ann Otoole

It is Mitch Kapor's company and he can do whatever he pleases with it. Including giving away the revenue stream which appears to be the number one priority for Linden Lab.

And calling the owner names is usually a bad idea. He obviously owns Secondlife and can do with it as he pleases (including burning it down).

I can tell the possibility of Linden Lab going public is about exactly zero now. You have to give up control and make yourself subject to ejection from the board if you take your company public. Never ever gonna happen lol.

Maybe Mitch and Phil and whoever that "M" guy is need to go back and watch Startup.com a few times and pay attention to the part where they realize they have competition, are clueless about what the customers want, and have no idea how to deal with the problem. That is the turning point. Along with the egos that is. Ego always kills profitable endeavors unless the ego is part of the revenue driver.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Wagner James Au
Wagner James "Hamlet" Au
Dutchie Summer Special
Nylon Pinkney Outfitters in SL
my site ... ... ...

Classic New World Notes stories:

Labor Union Protesters Converge On IBM's Metaverse Campus: Leaders Claim Success, 1850 Total Attendees (Including Giant Banana & Talking Triangle) (2007)

All About My Avatar: The story behind amazing strange avatars (2007)

Fighting the Front: When fascists open an HQ in Second Life, chaos and exploding pigs ensue (2007)

Copying a Controversy: Copyright concerns come to the Metaverse via... the CopyBot! (2006)

The Penguin & the Zookeeper: Just another unlikely friendship formed in The Metaverse (2006)

"—And He Rezzed a Crooked House—": Mathematician makes a tesseract in the Metaverse — watch the videos! (2006)

Guarding Darfur: Virtual super heroes rally to protect a real world activist site (2006)

The Skin You're In: How virtual world avatar options expose real world racism (2006)

Making Love: When virtual sex gets real (2005)

Watching the Detectives: How to honeytrap a cheater in the Metaverse (2005)

The Freeform Identity of Eboni Khan: First-hand account of the Black user experience in virtual worlds (2005)

Man on Man and Woman on Woman: Just another gender-bending avatar love story, with a twist (2005)

The Nine Souls of Wilde Cunningham: A collective of severely disabled people share the same avatar (2004)

Falling for Eddie: Two shy artists divided by an ocean literally create a new life for each other (2004)

War of the Jessie Wall: Battle over virtual borders -- and real war in Iraq (2003)

Home for the Homeless: Creating a virtual mansion despite the most challenging circumstances (2003)