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Friday, May 29, 2009


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Eirik Haefnir

More clubs should start charging an entrance fee.

As an added bonus, it keeps out unwanted elements.


I think many clubs are used as loss leaders to bring in traffic and push the sim up the search engine so the sim owner can rent out shop spaces more easily. DJs at these clubs are usually employed on a tip only basis. This clubs have a very different raison d'etre to clubs created to promote musical excellence.

I also think there are a lot of residents who believe the world owes them a living and expect everything for free.

I would be glad to pay an enterence fee for live music or a quality DJ as the experience is far superior to being in a poorly built club with a DJ working their way through a Ministry of Sound compilation album.

Sioban McMahon

I don't think people know how much effort it actually takes to run a music venue in SL. That's probably why you see so many places open and close. Booking acts, recruiting and training staff, hosting the events, and operating security, all of that is real work.

In our case, as we're a non-profit supporting a charity, we don't pay performers. All hosts, performers, greeters, etc, are volunteer at our venues and don't take tips. It all goes to the charity. Admittedly, that makes recruiting performers a bit challenging at times.

People generously donate at our events. That said, though, we could NEVER pay tier from donations/tips at events. The original owner of the West of Ireland tried that and ended up charging the LL costs to a credit card each month. In order to become self sufficient AND produce a healthy donation to the charity each month, we started renting land. We rent full sims and parcels, that produces revenue that pays the LL bills and produces extra that goes toward the monthly donation to the charity.

In our "business" model, the events and public areas create community, the members of that community then rent the parcels that underwrite our costs and make the public areas and events possible. The two sides support each other.

If you have a music venue, I strongly advise you to have another venture that underwrites your venue if you want to break even at this or make a profit.

As for a entrance fee helping to keep out undesireable folks, a well trained and vigilant staff should be doing that for you. Think about the Disney model. Keep it all behind the scenes and have no tolerance for behavior outside of the norms of your venue/community. Try talking to the person in IM, first. Engage them and make sure they understand what's at issue. If that doesn't work, eject the troublemaker before most of your guests know what's going on. If the behavior is really beyond your norms, eject first, talk after. Protect the quality of experience of your guests.

Arcadia Codesmith

For many clubs, tips are a secondary source of income. Their primary business is renting retail space or gambling, and the club is a magnet to boost traffic.

It should also be noted that a great many venues, perhaps the majority, don't pay musicians at all. The performers work exclusively for tips. Some only agree to augment tips; if the performer doesn't hit a certain target, the venue makes up the difference.

Venue operators do deserve to be tipped; running a live music club can be as much headache as joy, and regardless of other income, every little bit helps keep live music living in Second Life.

But claiming that the musicians have it better than club owners is just silly and counterproductive. It's a team effort. Support your teammates.

Ari Blackthorne

@PT who said "I also think there are a lot of residents who believe the world owes them a living and expect everything for free."

Oh yes, yes, yes.

I concur, I would be very willing to pay an entrance sur-charge provided it is a classy, upbeat, entertaining place. I enjoy Phat Cat's Jazz Lunge a LOT and often tip large to the hosts and hosteses - simply because they provide and atmosphere that really does make the patrons feel special.

The don't beg for tips or even suggest tipping. The always are updeat and you can hear the smiles on their faces.

There are too many 'live performers' who think they're "all that" and worth money. Already they are in music for all the wrong reasons. I did theatre for many years and trained it.

Among the first things told to aspiring performers:

"Do it for the art in you, -not- for you in the art."

A good performer performs for the sake of the performance, not whatever bankroll they can muster. And you can tell when that's the case. Perhaps a split-tip jar that pays the OWNER of the venue, which gives a percentage to the performer.

Kind of like first life?
There's a concept for you. :)

Jura Shepherd

There's a lot of frustrated venue owners out there. Seems like more collaboration would be good. Instead of 5 people who love music opening/running separate venues in an already saturated market, wouldn't it make more sense to share the work load and expense on ONE kickass venue?

...I'm just sayin'

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