« Open Forum: Who Should Apply for the 2010 Linden Prize? | Main | Ophelia's Gaze: Bruised Avatar Skins -- Stylish, Or Sexist? »

Tuesday, November 24, 2009


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Arwyn Quandry

I don't care if the policy was shaped by user feedback or not. It's a bad idea all around, and I may be moving my online shopping to another site that isn't Linden-controlled, since that might be the only safe area to shop around. Lately LL has been having some bad ideas. They need to take a step back and breathe before implementing anything new.

Abel Undercity
Does it satisfy your concern that this policy was shaped by user feedback?

In a pig's eye, it does. If that was their methodology then it's a fig leaf for a decision already made.

There's no way that LL could not have known that changing policy in this manner would not have residents rezzing torches and pitchforks. And yet they seem not to have.

Crap Mariner

"But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display ..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams, 1979

Aree Lulibub

Personally, I find it interesting that with as much time as I spend on Twitter and Plurk and networking in-world that I hadn't heard they were collecting feedback. I heard about the survey after the fact on the forum, where the Lab was quoted as saying that the changes were NOT on the road map and the survey was hypothetical. Less than a week later, they announced the changes.

みみか 王

Linden Labs don't understand how to work with their residents. They have proved that repeatedly.

Zauber Exonar

I was expecting listing fees to be instated on XGreedSL, but I was still surprised by Lunkhead Lab's announcement.

Ordinal Malaprop

> The feedback we received was that freebies are primarily used for marketing one's brand. Did you attend any of the office hours sessions on the topic when we were developing our plan? It would have been useful to get your feedback then. For future topics important to you, I'd recommend checking out our office hours.

The most utterly facile piece of insulting, patronising nonsense I can recall being presented with regarding Second Life.

If Lindens now cannot recognise that three effectively unnannounced office hours sessions where they present their ideas (see office hours #2 transcript, 9:30 onwards for an example) to a handful of self-selecting audience members, and then take what they feel like from the encounter, is not consultation or an attempt at consultation, well.

Ciaran Laval

As someone who attended the office hours and is apparently therefore the great satan, I have to say no, nothing Pink or Colossus have replied about has explained that this was shaped by resident feedback, the meeting was about freebies and cheapies, how that morphed into a L$10 fee for all items will forever remain a mystery.

However on the blogrum, the disconnect between residents and Colossus was summed up best by Katt falworth, as Colossus tried to talk of the disconnect and work out where it was:

Colossus: "Have I captured this clearly?"
Katt Falworth "No, you are so far off course not even Google maps could get you back lol"


Who cares where policy comes from as long as it's good policy? They're supposed to be flattening the curve new users have to climb but these policy-by-committee decisions make things increasingly cumbersome. In trying to please everyone they repeatedly just annoy everyone.

A simple fee to list all items would have made some sense, but instead we get pages of explanation and a confusing part-fee and part-commission mess no-one wants or understands. Really I wish they'd stop pretending to ask Residents, make some sensible decisions and have the balls to implement them.

Galena Qi

The statement that sums up LL's intent the clearest is the following from Colossus Linden made in response to a request posted on the LL forum" Capitalization is mine.

"...Some of the freebies are actual goodies for the benefit of SL as a whole. Think for example the MLP menu, sit helpers, megaprim packs, the SALT hud. About those I asked Colossus, and got the following response (permission to qute)

Colossus Linden: Marcel, if there are some items which are truly considered "Societal Benefits" WHICH ARE NOT BEING PRODUCED AND SOLD BY MERCHANTS, then I'd be happy to try to find a way to still make those items available."

This statement clearly indicates that the purpose of this new policy is not to reduce clutter on XStreet, but to remove any competition for pay items posted by vendors. The collateral damage to the new user experience (no free versions of HUDs, AOs, etc unless the creator is willing to pay for the listing) will be immense.


This is a crazy thing to do.

But, it is not as crazy as the stupid bot\camper policy that is broken.

There are still millions of bots and campers everywhere.


Im sorry, But Linden Lab are quickly becoming the enemy of the people(residents). They gave me freedom to create, and slowly over the years bit by bit take it away. I am on the defensive trying my best to keep what i hold dear in SL, my friends, My Island, where i create my world with my imagination. I will not bow to this new Linden Lab and their disregard for all that came before the arrival of their New CEO and his 'experience'.

Gone are the true innovators, gone is the original vision. All we have is each other VS the Business ready to squeeze every last penny out of the ones who created the content of this virtual world.

All Linden Lab own is an unstable beta of a virtual world platform and a second hand cataloging website for objects not even made by them.

Second Life is only as great as the enthusiasm, effort and heart that is put into it by great communities of creative residents, and not to do with anything Linden lab will ever do.

I am Vexed, terribly vexed!

Tristin M

I'm still supprised (only kinda) that the Lab is holding to this line of BS still.
I mean really.. WHY havent these 2 been fired?

Thynka Little

Those who attended the SLCC09 Sunday morning event may recall T Linden's reference to resident feedback sessions held regularly in-world. The small crowd assembled there (after a night of parties) consisted of many ardent and long-time contributors to SL culture, content creators, educators, business owners, yet few had ever attended one of these meetings... because most were unaware of any such opportunities.

Beatrix Noel

I've never been to an in world office hours. Probably because I never find out about them until way too late. I don't know when office hours are announced -- maybe it's just on the main website but I hardly ever got to secondlife.com unless I need transaction information. I hate their forums and it's never been helpful to me, I've found a better source for informtion are sites like sluniverse and blogs.

And honestly even if everyone knew about it and wanted to go to office hours -- how many really could attend at one time? 30 or 50. That's no way to get information.

More and more I'm wishing there was a viable alternative to SL that really did embrace the Your World Your Imagination idea.

After two years in SL the feeling I get from the Lindens is they only understand the way they use SL and how they want people to use SL and they don't care about anything else.

Otenth Paderborn

How can they say they are enhancing the buyer experience, when by their own admission they only talked to merchants? (Not that the merchant conversations amount to more than a pile of doody.)


Unlike most Linden Office Hours the Commerce Office Hours are strictly "moderated" and usually there are at least 4 Lindens, including forum moderators with enforcer powers, in attendance some of whom just sit there never interacting.

But at least there is never any peni equipped noob overflights or any angry residents demanding to have grievances heard so they look pretty orderly and the only possible impression is one of all attendees support the policies.

The next set of impending policies relate to adult content on a linden lab web site. I'm dripping with sarcasm when I say I am sure that will end well lmao.

Whatever. If most of the merchants leave xstreet the ones that remain will benefit and that appears to be the goal. Some merchants recognize this are are remaining whilst cleaning out the "dead wood" listings that never get many views. Xstreet will become another form of classified advertising whose purpose in the eyes of merchants is a vehicle by which customers are directed in world to shop where Linden Lab gets no commissions (other than all that tier everyone must pay to have a retail nexus).

In addition Colossus has clearly stated in writing that xstreet is to become a highly customized focused shopping experience. Therefore xstreet is no longer a full service marketplace and will intentionally be limited. Therefore it is curious Linden Lab is continuing with this policy that it is a TOS violation to discuss "competing marketplaces" since Linden Lab has in effect removed xstreet from the full service marketplace economy.

This policy announcement has succeeded in breaking the pattern of the "noise" (as Lindens call it during office hours) fading after 24 to 48 hours. Looks like this one isn't going away so fast. But LL is going into holiday mode and have indicated they won't be around much to respond. Take that however you like.

I guess the next outrage inducing announcement will happen, in true blue corporate style, a few days before the Lindens all go on Christmas vacation.


Well, there's a flux out of products on Xstreet. Those people who will want to stick with XstreetSL, will stay.
Unfortunately for xstreet sellers, a part of trafic will be redirected to other offworld web shops. Where those sellers i'm sure will post their goodies as well. Because products MUST be seen and promoted to all spots visited by customers, to have a better conversion rate :) Those who will keep only xstreet listings and not joining others web-shops, will have a lower rate of visits. That's automatically a lower rate of sales.
I'm sure that people in world would advice new residents to look in other places for first set of clothes, their first AO and so on.
Perhaps that's why the SL mentors are sent away in the same time? One of advices sent to new residents by people around is how to search for free stuff, where to look inworld and that there.. somewhere.. it's a web shop from where they, new avatars, can change their appearance.
Well... from now... the location changes.
We all keep looking on Xstreet for great stuff, but i'm sure there will be a higher rate of sales inworld, because XstreetSL uses commission, that means lower earnings for seller on web, fix sale inworld. With those tax increasing, i feel like only lazy people will shop there, rest will go inworld, for lower prices of same sellers.

New creators will have a opportunity to create and rent stalls in specific sims, managed by LindenLab in exchange of 30% of profit.
Think a bit... what that means for those who buy: Higher prices. Good for LL, that brings more real $ inworld.
I'm thinking to rent one such stall and set everything at 0L$. A way to share inworld freebies;) 30% of nothing it's nothing at all;) But i'm sure they figured out a way to kick that down too, already.

Rob Danton

Part of me wishes that the furore over the so-called consultations that LL has with its residents would just die down. We will all get high blood pressure if we believe that we play a part in LL's corporate strategy. We don't.

The idea that we play a part in the management of the world is a hangover from the days of Philip and his more visionary view of how this technology will change humanity. The bean counters have taken the fort.

The decisions currently coming out of LL are consistent and every one of them is specifically designed to cut costs for the company and maximize revenue. Whether these decisions will have a negative effect on LL's viability in the mid-to-long term is hard to know, given that we don't know what the company's long term plans are.

Yes they affect us, but we are free to move to other platforms and if LL continues to screw it up then that's what will happen.

OpenSim is alpha stage technology atm, rather than a coherent virtual world but it shows promise.

This weeks latest development of an experimental payment system for opensim that links to a PayPal backend should be a timely reminder to LL that they should really be focusing on retaining their no.1 position as there are other platforms snapping at their heels.


Fogwoman Gray

Thank you Mr Danton. This has been my feeling for the past year. Much like dealing with corporate employers, the labs are hiring folks who are specially trained to make us all feel "empowered" and "part of the process" they want resident "buy in". But the truth is that they are going to do what they are going to do. I am personally going to skip the opportunity to have smoke blown up my ass by some coporate chippy with no clue or concern about what I want or need. Both inworld and out.


As opposed to the cultish techno burning hippies blowing smoke of your -ss before? ;)

Uriel Wheeler

LL was able to send me a poll (as an XStreet Merchant) about new services they wanted to sell me - both enhanced XStreet listings and inworld.

Why they were unable to send me a similar poll as an XStreet merchant is beyond me. This is especially galling, since most of the items I have on XStreet are free "newbie helpers" and very low-cost items.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia

"These decisions were made after a great deal of consideration, discussion and debate; they were initiated and refined by Resident feedback"

Pink's remark is such spin, and it's part of LL's pattern for ham-handed policies.

In recent times, only the Zindra decision appeared to be carefully designed and executed. Despite the initial furor, it led to a better SL experience for the majority of Residents I know.

As for OpenSpaces, the jokay Wollengong cease-and-desist order, the failure to fix in-world search, and more...LL's left and right hands seem to be run by different brains. Each of these blunders drives others to look at alternative virtual worlds.

Interesting times, yes, but for educators who have invested time and money in SL, it kinda stinks.

heh. If it falls apart, a bunch of us eggheads will get articles and books out of the wreckage. Now THAT is mercenary. Y'all think LL can be arbitrary and brutal...try academe :)

HeadBurro Antfarm

Well I've read some BS in my time, and that load of old tripe stinks of it.

Yes the Lab has given us a world we couldn't have elsewhere and yes running it must be hard, etc. but to put that guff out and expect us to not see it for the money grabbing greed it is is insulting.

I love SL for the life it has given me, but as soon as there is a viable alternative I'll show the Lab the same level of loyalty they've shown their residents.

Jeroentje Jansma

This isn't shaped by user feedback. I never heard about this, untill now. No poll on XstreetSL, no message on the login screen of SL..

The Lindens consider all freebies/dollarbies a promo-tool. ???

Let's all hop over to http://slapt.me and let XstreetSL die a silent dead.

And on the blog of Allegory Malaprop, a listing with XstreetSL alternatives:



Chenin Anabuki

@Crap Mariner, excellent reference to HHG regarding this issue. Are the Lindens turning into Vogons?

@Headburro Antfarm...there is already an alternative. We just moved a couple of our sims to OpenSim. And, really enjoying the extra space, hundreds of dollars in saved monthly tier and freedom from the moody LL asset servers. We have not turned our backs on the SL community. But, it is a comfort to know that LL is no longer a monopoly.

Sasy Scarborough

I am really concerned about this 10L fee, sure a one off fee maybe to register items I would understand. But 10L per item/per month is excessive.

I know of at least three designers who have in excess of 1000 items on Xstreet, what happens to them, two of them rarely log in often due to RL, what happens if they don't get their items unlisted in time?. I am sorry but no one should ever be paying 10K a month to have items that they have had listed for years available.

JeanRicard Broek

Just read the transcripts of the posted Office Hours meetings. What a joke.
No wonder there are no SL middle or maiden names. I can imagine a few for Colossus.

Arcadia Codesmith

When 90+% of your customers don't like a change, you reverse the change with a heartfelt apology, you don't stand there and try to defend it! Gaaaah!Where is LL recruiting these days, Dorkville Business College?

Here's a plan of action for you, compiled from ideas presented in the threads on this subject:

1) Reverse the new fees.

2) Improve listings so merchants can offer color/style options in a drop-down menu rather than needing a seperate page for each.

3) Allow demos to be purchased from the same page as the full-feature item.

4) Move non-demo freebies and cheapies ($50L threshold for sake of argument) into their own section on their own server with no or minimal charge for listing. Let it be cluttered, chaotic, and colorful.

5) Remove listings with zero sales in a 90 day period.

Could somebody log in once every three months and buy one copy of their own stuff to keep the listing alive? Yes. Let them. The 'clutter' that needs to be cleaned out are dead listings that not even the creator cares about anymore.

Oh, and...

6) Abandon the failed "office hours" paradigm in favor of moderated group chats announced grid-wide in world. Yes, you're going to have to really fix group chat first. Yes, you're going to have to deal with the unwashed masses instead of a small insular clique. Tough.

Jura Shepherd

"What's your sense of this reply? Does it satisfy your concern that this policy was shaped by user feedback?"

No not really. I imagine Pink waving her hand like Obi-Wan Kenobi as she said it.

The collective smarts of their "users" and what they have been able to achieve in-world (and for SL as a whole) is something that should inspire awe at LL. Those people could certainly find way for LL to make $ from Xstreet and do things that actually would improve the user experience, but instead they get patronized.

I do believe they are listening to feedback, but it seems more like surveillance than actual conversation. Until that changes, the format and amount of the feedback isn't going to matter much.

The Ex Mentor

The so called "sl merchants" are people who have extremely large income from xstreet. they don't care about the freebie taxes. slapt.me got a huge influx of registered users but i dont trust there way of working things. after they sacked half of there support staff i cant possibly see there customer services being any good. as well as this the site went offline as there magic box systems DDoSed the system. (shouldn't the boxes be on a dedicated server?)

i believe we should all go back to the old fashioned buy a parcel build a REAL in world shop and make it different from the rest.

How long will it be before LL Charges commission on in world items? hmm

a merchant

HEy Hamlet, Colossus is a he, not a she! Do yer homework, girl! ;)

What is the number of people that actually took this poll and what percentage of them are actually merchants on xstreet? How many are just angry freebie buyers who don't want to spend any money? Not very scientific...I mean seriously! And as someone else pointed out on that poll, biased much in the question format?

Lastly, anyone who thinks any well run company should poll their customers on price increases on their home page should have their heads examined. Geeze. you imagine ATT is going ask you? or your landlord? or your bank? Christ, the level of immaturity and ignorance, not mention the sense of entitlement that makes you think you deserve something for nothing, really makes me understand why linden labs wants some of you to take a hike and make room for professional sellers to make some money.

Yes, I'm staying on xstreet and in second life. In fact, I'm going to get some more land because I now know buyers won't have to wade through piles of arts and crafts to find quality merchandise. Way to go lindens!!!!

Arcadia Codesmith

Pffffft. Staying on XStreet? Enjoy your solitude. It's going to be sculptie tumbleweeds and cricket sound loops if they stay the course on this one. Very prudent of you to retain your anonymity... but then, I notice that most of the supporters of this disaster seem to be doing the same. Got backlash?


lmao at people thinking Kingdon is going to reverse a position.

Robustus Hax

MBC News did a panel discussion regarding the new changes. Both sides made great points.


My feeling is this is just translating into bad feelings between the residents and LL even if I'm not personally effected by the XStreet changes.

Lord Sullivan

Well I wouldn't normally post in a thread about Xstreet however I hate BS by anonymous folks so

@Ex Mentor to answer your questions. We didn't sack anyone, we took some Mods from the forum that were not doing anything anymore, we are a small team so sacking half the support staff would be hard as there is 4 of us at the moment plus the forum Mods.

Slapt's server is a dedicated server as well you know if I think you are one of the Mods we took off the list. Regarding the Dos attack well its good to know that you have read our server logs and deduced that we did not have a DDoS attack, hell you are better than our own hosting company engineers who were present at the time and blocked the IP the attack was coming from, ah well they must have been mistaken if an anonymous person on the internet knows better than them ;)

Yes we found a problem with the slapt boxes trying to all reconnect after the attack at the same time, but this has been fixed and an update was issued, but I assume you would have known this as its all on our forums in public view as I like honesty and transparency as it beats anonymous postings any day of the week ;)

Slapt has growing pains but hey xstreet wasn't finely tuned the day or even 6 months after it started and as slapt is written from the first line of code as a bespoke system and doesn't use Joomla, phpBB etc. as a sales platform, unlike other sites, sure there will be teething troubles, but then everyone is aware of them on slapt, its a community thing and people are fed up with lies and BS and those that think they know better all the time ;)

People are free to list or not on our site, we do not mind we just offer an alternative that is growing daily and the forums are open for everyone to read and judge for themselves.

Thanks for your comments just a shame that you can't be open and post with your real details, well at least your SL name go on I dare you to :)


@ Wagner sorry for hijacking this thread to answer that post but I just hate people that BS especially ones that havent the Balls to post using their names. Apologies.

Nalates Urriah

The LL folks have been watching too much political spin... or the residents have... either way it seems the majority of folks seem to hear the LL folks claims as spin and less than completely honest.

I either have to assume LL's people are lost in the PR field or they are spinning.

LL's track record has them at a disadvantage. I can cut them some slack on that. But, obviously they have not really learned much from past experience.

nexus burbclave

It speaks volumes that the only support for LL is coming from somebody who won't associate their comments with their primary avatar.

While AT&T doesn't ask permission to raise its rates, it would suffer a similar backlash if it drastically raised its rates compared to its competition. AT&T also doesn't take the anti-competitive stance that because you are a customer using its phone lines, you're not allowed to discuss switching to Verizon, Sprint or T-Mobile.

There is no shame in not being all things to all people. The shame comes in attempting to suppress that very notion.

a merchant

A few people in world who sell freebies would have us all believe that the pseudo-communist free for all approach is the only way to success. LL has to pay its people in dollars, not lindens, and those items, free or not have a real world cost. Those who never put a dime into the system should really not have the same voice as those who do. Try getting tech support on your modem if you didn't buy it from ATT.

I'm GLAD LL is finally growing up and behaving, listening to its paying customers like me instead of just listening to those who whine the most. It gives me hope. Once they start acting like economically rational companies, they'll be more predictable and I'll be more confident about investing more real world money into my business here.

I'm not rising to the bait of showing my in world main because of the juvenile threats, threats of cryolife and boycotts if I don't protest. It's laughable. These people who want to be free are trying to intimidate others into their agenda. Same as it ever was.

Fact is, there's a cost to what we do. When ATT raises prices, you just switch if you aren't happy, and you stay if you do. You don't threaten your friends who do stay that you'll steal their phone. Or do you?

You also don't leave AT&T now if their price change isn't coming for 3 months, now do you? So those who leaving now before there is any change are simply...making it easier for me during one of my busiest times of the year. So, please do keep it up. I thank you.

Murphy Alderson

What I see happening is all this will make it more difficult for people to find unique niche market items - at least on SLX. I've not done the slapt.me nor metaverse stuff simply because it seemed like..well...work. I make stuff for kicks and giggles, and not to turn a profit really.

Sadly, SLX will end up being mass consumable products...essentially the Wal-Mart of SL.

Thorn Witrial

@ Merchant - stop hiding and use your real avatar name if you want anyone to give what you say even the slightest bit of weight.

I deactivated my items on XstreetSL months ago when they closed the forums and Pink Linden's public comments let us know that the top ten merchants were far more important than us unwashed masses.

Not the top ten percent. THE TOP TEN. That's all I needed to know.

Even so, I did relist a few items in time for christmas because, to be honest, I need the money. However, with the new fees, I went in and deleted everything completely.

Not. Going. Back.

nexus burbclave

@ a merchant,
You know what? Part of why I attach my avatar identity to my posts is so that people might take five minutes to look me up before throwing around sweeping generalizations about who it suits them for me to represent. People engaging in intimidation tactics are no more representative of my opinion than you are.

While it may suit your agenda if everyone who opposes you can be conveniently painted as pseudo-communists who don't understand how the market works, I can assure you that this is not who I am. I am an unapologetic capitalist and a small-time merchant in a niche market. I have no problem paying for value. However, when a service provider tries to nickel and dime small entrepreneurs out of business to help line the pockets of established businesses, I do take issue with that. The market doesn't function properly when actors actively suppress market information or engage in other anti-competitive behavior.

As it happens, I do sink a pretty penny into LLs pockets between my land holdings, upload costs, my inworld search listings, and the money that I spent on xstreet enhancements (and will likely now be spending on enhancements elsewhere). I have no problem spending money, as long as I believe I am receiving value for my expenditure.

Since I am on the commerce forums and have seen the various threads, I would also strongly dispute the notion that there has been no whining leading up to these changes. Sadly the whining was misplaced. Blaming other content providers for a broken search system is neither accurate nor productive.

To your last point regarding waiting, you might very well leave immediately if you want to make it clear that you are leaving because of the action that they have announced.

Techno-Commie Boy Revolutionist

"pseudo-communist free for all approach"

/me smells a Prokofy Objectionablist Ayn-Randian Bloodsucking Land-Baron in that post :)

Or a rumpswab imitator of Prok the Great.

Please. I actually don't mind that LL could charge a nominal fee of 99L for listing a freebie. It's the monthly charges on items, that favors the Big Boyz and Gurlz of SL Commerce, that rankles lots of us as well as how LL rolled out this change with only a figleaf of Resident input.

The AT&T (or any US telecom) metaphor is ridiculous. They represent monopolistic power, not a truly free marketplace. How many of us have the choice between more than two of these government-supported (yeah, we have capitalism in the teleco market) behemoths in our areas?

I'm not hiding behind this name--it's just that our Techno-Commie Collective does not permit that Capitalist conceit. All workers are interchangeable in the bright future of techno-socialism.

Metacam Oh

There's a market in SL its called Pyramid Scheme, and the fees associated with Xstreet help to bring more Linden back up to the top. Linden owns everything they always will and until some other VW opens up we are all F'ed.

Arcadia Codesmith

I shut out Lame Merchant at the suggestion that influence in the system should be proportionate to ability to pay into the system. That's not capitalism; that's feudalism. It's a fundamentally anti-democratic sentiment rooted, literally, in the Dark Ages.

a merchant

Thorn, aren't you an employee or somehow intimately related to slapt.me? Gee, I wonder who has a hidden agenda here? So wait, you then put your listings back on XStreet "because you needed the money?" So slapt.me wasn't cutting it, eh? Surprise, surprise....

And, Techno whoever you are: last time I checked I have my choice of cell phone providers (at least four in my area) so the accusation that ATT is a monopoly is specious, at best. Try again.

Arcada: WTF are you talking about? I don't pay anything into SL. But I do create valuable items which people want to buy lindens for to buy. I pay LL money in tier and cash out fees. So how is it feudalism that I expect them to treat me as a paying customer and listen to me over those who don't do those things? It's not a commune or a kibbutz!

I love how I'm being painted as a "big business" when I have zero employees. Just myself. I need the income I get from second life. I can't afford to give it away for free and I'm glad there's a charge now. The hippie free for all types who don't care whether they make a red cent because this is just a game to them were really causing me problems.

That's because Second Life isn't a game to me. It pays my rent and puts food on my family's table. Those who are not adding any value to the system, just generating page after page of google image crap, never buying anything, never thinking through the consequences of their actions should have a tax on them. And that is why people are so up in arms and debating: because Second Life means different things to each of us. If I had my way, there'd be a tax on Freebies in world too, but LL tries to please all its customers. So if compromise means that everyone's equally unhappy, then they did it perfectly.

If you all don't like it, simply leave Second Life. As you are all so fond of saying, there's lots and lots of options out there. And we all now that's the best way to get any company to change its policies. vote with your pocketbooks. Cash out your holdings. Abandon your land. Delete your avatar name. But for the love of God, just go already, stop with the melodramatic diva like swan songs, only to reveal you back here in 3 months' time....I've been on the internet and been there, seen that, got the t shirt. I'm so over it. And stop lauding praise on those jerks who are using copybot and boycotts to punish those "small merchants" like me who are doing our best to feed our families. Because if you support them you are hurting me more than Lindens ever could.


@ "a merchant": Telling people to leave SL is a commerce forum terms of service violation.

Nalates Urriah

In a time of important political news and massive spin LL's idea of transparency and honest support of the residents seems pure spin. They may be telling the truth and actually believe what they are saying. I suspect not many others think the same.

I think this is just an effort to increase LL income from XStreetSL. Fortunately for me there is competition.

I am still wondering what these changes will cost me. I'm exploring other online SL selling systems.

I would also like to see the results of the poll I was sent about the topic.

Thorn Witrial

@ Merchant

I am not a Slapt.me employee. Never have been.

Arcadian Vanalten

I personally think "a merchant" is simply "A Troll." Uses all the classic troll obfuscation tactics to keep the drama stirred up and the attention on him/herself. Thorn's pretty well known to most of us as a successful in-world jewelry designer and host. You? Just an anonymous, and ultimately uncompelling and unconvincing troll who, if he/she really meant it, would a) stand behind the post with an identity, and b) take their own advice about whining and finger-pointing.

Arcadian Vanalten

Oh, and that's the last bit of attention you're gonna get from me, darlin' *pats the troll onna head and encourages her to run along, now*

Hamlet Au

I know this is a heated discussion, but please keep it civil. "A merchant", if you want to get in touch with me, I promise to preserve your anonymity. I do think it's fair that folks know where you're coming from.

Lord Sullivan

@ Merchant

As the director of slapt.me I can confirm that Thorn never has been employed by my company in any manner. Just to set the record straight :)

a merchant

On another point entirely....

I wonder if other merchants with stolen items full perm now being sold as freebies will now sic their lawyers on these alternative sites to which the freebies are moving/have moved.What if those sites got sued? Doesn't Stroker Serpentine himself have a branded storefront on one of those competing sites? Hmmmmm.....

Last time I went to the home page of one site I saw a Canon EOS virtual camera for $0 Lindens. Wonder what Canon will say about that? For that matter I wonder what my esteemed colleagues here will say when their stolen merchandise ends up spread across five sites or more. That's five sites to file DMCA claims on. Think about it.

My take is that once the lawyers get involved and IP claims go up on those new sites, you'll see those free commissions disappear like dust in the wind. No one can be in this business and not deal with that issue in some form or another. That costs real $$ not $L.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Making a Metaverse That Matters Wagner James Au ad
Please buy my book!
Thumb Wagner James Au Metaverse book
Wagner James "Hamlet" Au
Bad-Unicorn SL builds holdables HUD
Dutchie Evergreen Slideshow 2024
Juicybomb_EEP ad
My book on Goodreads!
Wagner James Au AAE Speakers Metaverse
Request me as a speaker!
Making of Second Life 20th anniversary Wagner James Au Thumb
my site ... ... ...
PC for SL
Recommended PC for SL
Macbook Second Life
Recommended Mac for SL

Classic New World Notes stories:

Woman With Parkinson's Reports Significant Physical Recovery After Using Second Life - Academics Researching (2013)

We're Not Ready For An Era Where People Prefer Virtual Experiences To Real Ones -- But That Era Seems To Be Here (2012)

Sander's Villa: The Man Who Gave His Father A Second Life (2011)

What Rebecca Learned By Being A Second Life Man (2010)

Charles Bristol's Metaverse Blues: 87 Year Old Bluesman Becomes Avatar-Based Musician In Second Life (2009)

Linden Limit Libertarianism: Metaverse community management illustrates the problems with laissez faire governance (2008)

The Husband That Eshi Made: Metaverse artist, grieving for her dead husband, recreates him as an avatar (2008)

Labor Union Protesters Converge On IBM's Metaverse Campus: Leaders Claim Success, 1850 Total Attendees (Including Giant Banana & Talking Triangle) (2007)

All About My Avatar: The story behind amazing strange avatars (2007)

Fighting the Front: When fascists open an HQ in Second Life, chaos and exploding pigs ensue (2007)

Copying a Controversy: Copyright concerns come to the Metaverse via... the CopyBot! (2006)

The Penguin & the Zookeeper: Just another unlikely friendship formed in The Metaverse (2006)

"—And He Rezzed a Crooked House—": Mathematician makes a tesseract in the Metaverse — watch the videos! (2006)

Guarding Darfur: Virtual super heroes rally to protect a real world activist site (2006)

The Skin You're In: How virtual world avatar options expose real world racism (2006)

Making Love: When virtual sex gets real (2005)

Watching the Detectives: How to honeytrap a cheater in the Metaverse (2005)

The Freeform Identity of Eboni Khan: First-hand account of the Black user experience in virtual worlds (2005)

Man on Man and Woman on Woman: Just another gender-bending avatar love story, with a twist (2005)

The Nine Souls of Wilde Cunningham: A collective of severely disabled people share the same avatar (2004)

Falling for Eddie: Two shy artists divided by an ocean literally create a new life for each other (2004)

War of the Jessie Wall: Battle over virtual borders -- and real war in Iraq (2003)

Home for the Homeless: Creating a virtual mansion despite the most challenging circumstances (2003)

Newstex_Author_Badge-Color 240px
JuicyBomb_NWN5 SL blog
Ava Delaney SL Blog