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Friday, January 22, 2010


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Mescaline Tammas

I think it's pretty disgusting how Linden Lab treats it's residents, good builds like this promote a resident built world, but it seems sl is run by capitalist scumbags. The only interest the lindens seem to have is the commercial viability of an unsupported populace (buy slexchange & securing more profit) they need, must, put something back into this world, beyond making it possible, and something permanent and substantial. Tier is expensive and creativity speaks for itself, fine have an economy but look out for your own.

Sidney Smalls

Here's something that might be an interesting project. I wonder if an entire sim could be copybotted and "zipped up" somehow so that it could easily be redeployed. Sort of to preserve the DNA of it, so it could be recreated at some future time. Or perhaps even, if there aren't enough funds to keep all the interesting sims open, one or more sims could be set up to display these sims for a limited time, on a rotating basis.

It's not a perfect solution, but it beats losing the build forever.

Sidney Smalls

As for financing, I would certainly hope that LL would find it in their interest to provide some for something like this. I'm particularly interested in preserving mainland builds, which don't fit the zip-up-a-whole-sim model as well. I wonder if some people who have been involved in preservation efforts in the past, like Marianne McCann, the Boardman preservation people, got together with maybe Jack Linden they could make this happen?

Ciaran Laval

Whereas is might make people warm and fuzzy to think that LL should give away free space, the cold harsh realities of bills having to be paid make it a non starter.

If residents want to preserve these areas then raise money for them inworld, do work and make small donations.

Sioban McMahon

An interesting idea, but could you imagine the politics of LL choosing some sims to preserve?

Nicco Kuh

It would be very easy to let sim owners have a copy of their work backed up on a linden server just using the same OAR commands that can be used in Opensim platforms. I know there might be content copyright issues, that's why I am not suggesting to copy them into a local user drive, I suggest to just offer that as an additional service for sim owners to easily back up or change sims. It is also something offered in SLE.

Maria Korolov

In fact, quite a few content creators are moving over to the OpenSim grids.

According to Linden Lab, resident-owned regions in Second Life reached 23,900 in December 2009, up 6% over December 2008. By comparison, over just the last three months of 2009, total regions on the public OpenSim grids increased from 5,613 in September to 7,246 in December -- a growth rate of 29% for three months, or an annualized growth rate of 177%. At this rate, OpenSim's main grids will pass SL in land area by early 2011.

This count only includes the top 40 public grids. There are also another 400 private grids listed with the Metaverse Ink search engine, and thousands of other unlisted, private grids -- anyone can download the server software and run their own world. And this statistic also assumes that OpenSim growth won't accelerate. But when you consider that OpenSim only became viable and hyperlinked in 2009, we might see total land counts pass Second Life before the end of 2010.

One major reason? The cost. Prices for a region start at zero if you're hosting it at home, or $16 a month if you're paying for professional hosting.

List of top hosting providers here: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2009/12/top-opensim-hosts-of-2009/

But it's not just price. OpenSim region owners can save backups of their entire region on their local hard drive. If they want to shut down a region -- or keep a historical record of how a region evolves -- they can do this, and restore the region later.

How to move objects over?

The Meerkat browser will allow you to save objects that you've created to your own hard drive, and then you can upload them to your own sim. Second Inventory will allow you transfer some objects. And there are rumors that some developers have tools that allow you to make a backup of an entire region, but I haven't found anyone who would admit this on the record yet.

It would be nice if there was a utility that exported terrains and builds (with permissions, of course) in an OAR-compatible format. If anyone knows of anything like this for SL, please let me know, at [email protected].

(And no, I'm not afraid of no spam!)

-- Maria Korolov
Editor, Hypergrid Business

Hamlet Au

That's interesting, Maria. How many monthly actives would you estimate use OpenSim?

Nalates Urriah

Capitalism works well. If it costs us nothing to ask LL keep copies of regions then there is no reason not to keep them all. LL has to pay the bill. Ideas that push the financial responsibility for things we want to others is part of the entitlement mentality. I wish no luck to those forcing others to pay for it.

Sidney Smalls idea is probably more doable. From working with Open Simulator I know it is possible to backup a region and restore it on a new server. It will still require some resources that have to be paid for.

Sioban McMahon is right. Selecting which regions to preserve, display, and when would be a headache for LL.

Maria Korolov has good points. Myst-Uru style builds like Devokan, a Showcase location once, is moving to the Hypergrid and closing the SL region (Visit now if you have not seen it Feb 7 is the last day). Eder D’ni is another Myst-Uru style build that has closed. It may also move. I do think the percentages used miss represent the actual growth rates. I also think there is no doubt many will find Hypergrid less costly than SL and Blue Mars. The Hypergrid could surpass LL’s SL. It is however running on Alpha level software and has loads of problems and servers have to be restarted often. Still, the advantages of building on a home run server are tremendous. May be LL will wake up and make it possible to import regions from the Hypergrid. Meerkat will let you export your own builds from SL or Hyper and import them to the other. But AFAIK there is no way to export/import terrain on the SL side.

Commerce is difficult on the Hypergrid. Permissions on anything are shaky so placing your products on Hypergrid is risky. Having funds in Hypergrid (HG) is also risky. This is slowing the adoption of Hypergrid. IBM and LL are working to make travel between SL and HG possible… well, its possible now, but adding the ability to travel with your SL av and protect ownership of skins and clothes is what is in development.

All that said, better import and export (the legal kind) between SL and HG would allow individuals to preserve their builds and move them to various grids. That will increase competition and likely drive land pricing down (tier) and allow more regions to survive in SL.

For those interested in the Hypergrid a Myst-Uru fan group is forming a non-profit group looking at Hypergrid from the Myst fan base perspective. http://forums.openuru.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=275

Kekoa Kahanamoku

So, if there isn't enough visitor interest, then why is it worth saving? Just because a group of fans declare it so?

ColeMarie Soleil

*curls up in Mescaline's lap and munches popcorn*
I totally agree with you
*thinks that there should be a fund for things like this*
and shit

The world needs crazy
and I'm happy to fulfill the need

*poofs and goes back to my popcorn*

Acacia Merlin

Sometimes visitors don't even know that an owner is closing down. And absent a process to potentially save a build, owners who run out of cash generally just fold up their tents and disappear into the night. With a process in place, the possibility to petition, and a review board of some sort, we might be able to save some of our acknowledged treasures. I live in a city that lost some amazing architectural treasures, including works by Louis Sullivan, before we realized that we ought to be preserving them and could find the means to do so. Now there is a process in place, and we're able to save more of our past.

Bryn Oh

Lainey Voom and Gala Charron have attempted a machinima version.


Moggs Oceanlane

I like the idea. It would need to be a resident run thing - perhaps something could be set up so residents could choose either to make monthly or once off donations as they pleased would work.

To work EVEN as a resident run body, it'd need to be pretty transparent and be run by a diverse body of residents - otherwise the same issues I imagine for a LL run body would occur. Gah, my head spins thinking about it.

On the upside, I see lots of wonderful acts of charity and random kindness carried out by residents - some that make huge changes to the recipients lives - so it's quite possible this is a project that could run with minimal drama.

I think it's a fab idea and would definitely like to get more information if it goes ahead.

I like the idea of the Machinima project too and am bookmarking the site to look later when I have some time. I guess copyright issues preclude these from becoming part of the existing Internet Archive project (http://www.archive.org/)?

Cube Republic

LOL @ heritage builds. On one hand, LL are raking it in’ and making a lot of cash, so really sims could do with being a bit cheaper. Lower prices would attract more users. However no build deserves to be ‘saved’......if you want to save something try the rain forests, your local river, the homeless dude at the end of the road, Haitians or whales etc.

Your sim LOL

Acacia Merlin

Cube, I certainly agree that sims could be cheaper, thereby allowing more people with creative talent to build their dreams . . . of course, multiplying the less attractive offerings as well. And I support a variety of rl causes, including those you mention, some focused on easing human suffering, others environmental. So for me, it's both/and, not either/or, and I think that's the case for many of us. Supporting the local animal shelter, doesn't mean you won't be sending money for Haitian relief.

What I see in Second Life, ever since running across Robby Dingo's machinima, "A Better Life," in my early days in Second Life, is the potential for this virtual medium to provide inspiration, opportunity, respite and renewal to many people . . . perhaps easing suffering, opening possibilities that wouldn't otherwise exist. Just as I support the arts in rl, I support them here. This virtual world may as well be as fine as we can make it.

Acacia Merlin

Here's link to "A Better Life"


Arcadian Vanalten

Back when Svarga was going under, I'd suggested an idea I still like; one sim annually gets selected to be preserved for posterity. If the owner agreed, LL would assume ownership of it and its contents as is, and it would be declared a public park or national landmark/heritage sim, whatever you want to call it. Owner doesn't have to pay for it anymore, but doesn't get to control it anymore as it becomes land in the public trust.

Of course, we'd probably end up w/ squatters growing virtual weed in the Linden National Forest, so maybe that's not such a great idea XD.

Acacia Merlin

Great idea, Arcadian!


Those are super cute. I like you on Facebook.

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