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Friday, March 05, 2010

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Just Some Guy

Fast-forward to oh say, 2020: You will be able to check yourself into a psyche ward for "Immersion Dysfunction" - a delusion that causes people to confuse the real world with the virtual.

For the moment, we can endeavor to A) /not/ portray virtual worlds as "real world replicas" (which also improves design and innovation) and B) not glorify these virtual experiences beyond what they are: simulations.

This might sound far-fetched or extreme right now, but it won't when these reports become more common. To go even further, we could actually /train/ people to consider these experiences in the proper perspective. Do you feel uncomfortable with an unclothed avatar "sitting" on your avatar's lap? Then you are already suffering the initial effects of Immersion Dysfunction. Try practice: Destroy your avatar a few times (throw it in a volcano!) or subject it to these experiences a few times until you realize that they are meaningless.

If you think this proposition is shocking, then again - you are already suffering the effects of "I.D." If you think that the value of virtual worlds relies on these delusions, you are flat wrong: Nobody (sane) believes that a photograph of themselves is harmed by physical abuse of the photo - and yet this doesn't damage the effectiveness of a photograph as an experience. You have a balanced perspective on them: The photo is a lovely representation of you - but it is not you.

We need to promote the same awareness and understanding with respect to an avatar. Sadly, at the moment, we are often promoting the exact opposite, under the belief that this is where the value of virtual worlds (and avatars) lay. It's not.

Ann Otoole

Maybe people should watch this video repeatedly until they let go of their addiction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKBRG_QgEAM

The hardest thing for people to do is admit they have a problem and made a mistake getting so wrapped up in a video game that their real lives have been negatively impacted. In the case of Second Life and other "monetized systems" it probably means they have thrown away tons of money along with their reputation and employable status.

Second Life is not the future. No video game is. In 10 to 20 years people will be laughing at what we did with our time in this decade. Like how people laugh at the 70's and disco and at drive-in movies.

Truth hurts.

Judi Newall

"Question is, what more can the Second Life community do, to at least try and prevent the inevitable, before it does happen?" For a start if it's inevitable then there is nothing you CAN do. Someone at sometime will do something similar to this. As noted "if it wasn’t a virtual world that they prioritized above what really matters, it would have been something else." Stop trying to run others lives, this is what leads to people wanting every cliff to have safety barriers and every beach to have warning signs. Always there are and will be those whose path is destruction for themselves and others. Step in if you can, offer a shoulder and some time, but don't beat yourself up if you fail and don't try to corral the entire world into safe pastures, otherwise no-one will ever do anything for fear of consequences. You can't prevent everyone from taking drink or drugs, you can't get everyone into anger management. I might be in a plane crash, a car crash or find an addiction I can't relinquish, but I don't want anyone restricting my movements to ensure none of these ever happen. The end result of living is death and it WILL happen sometime. "When you take a chance in life sometimes good things happen and sometimes bad - but if you don't take a chance then nothing happens."

Scree Raymaker

It seems like every few months I read a story about someone in the far east dying because they spend too much time playing computer games. I've yet to hear about this becoming a regular occurrence in the west.

Hitomi Tiponi

I agree with Judi. It will happen, if not in Secondlife, in WoW, or some other MMO - and several times (not all of which will be reported). People also neglect their children with addiction to drugs, alcohol, or merely monetary greed.

Let's just be glad we still find such cases shocking.

Fact is that many more people will be killed today on our roads than will be by MMOs in a year - but then we call those 'accidents' rather than 'neglect' which it often is.

Adric Antfarm

Oh Prius. If not for you, Hamlet may of posted a nasty old naked chick again today..

Oh Chef Boyaredee. If not for you, they would be able to see their toes..

Oh Jack Daniels. If not for you, they would be able to see Christmas without that new liver.

Oh Smith & Wesson. If not for you, Uncle Mike would be around trying to change the channel from Springer again.

Oh Sudafed. If not for you, they would have more than three black teeth in their meth mouth.

Oh personal responsibility. If not for you, we could all pin our actions on something else instead of us.

LittleLostLinden


I wonder if there was malice here. Perhaps the couple really wanted an abortion but couldn't afford it, so instead, they used their addictions as a scapegoat.

I'm not sure what the abortion laws are like in that country.

It does make you wonder how the human race ever evolved however.

I had not heard of this virtual world before, how are the graphics and are they better than the Windlight upgrade?

I hope SL gives us some more eye candy soon. I think when the dynamic shadows are finished and work perfectly, that will be something.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia

"I've been writing about Second Life for nearly seven years, and in all that time, I can honestly say I've never come across a case of obsession quite so extreme, or an ending that appalling."

Hamlet, the case is not exactly parallel--no innocent and defenseless baby died--but remember the fate of Carmen Hermosillo?

http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2008/08/remembering-car.html

Her fate was quite appalling.

Keep your lives in balance: that is a message a few of us ignore. And then politicos and media-outlets with an axe to grind or just white space to fill run such stories to indict all of us who spend time with MMOs or virtual worlds.

CyFishy Traveler

It happened in America, too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1557480/Couple-play-computer-games-as-children-starve.html

This is the dark side of the 'reward system' that hooks people into other virtual worlds. Second Life doesn't have that, even though some have argued that we'd have better retention if it did.

If that's the possible cost of 'retention', maybe I'd rather SL remains this weird and aimless thing that people come and go in.

Johnny

There is a solid body of research into internet addiction which has built up over the last 20 years or so; it should feature in the next edition of the DSM. I've been interested in it for a while, and did a diploma in the treatment of cyberaddiction a couple of years ago. In my experience it's actually more useful to conceptualise it as an impulse-control disorder rather than an addiction as such. There are a lot of similarities with pathological gambling. Modified CBT is the best treatment, with medication useful if there are comorbid depressive or anxiety symptoms, which there often are.

The South Koreans lead the world in the recognition and management of cyberaddiction, with a department of the health ministry devoted to it, prevention campaigns in schools and a network of treatment centres. It's taken very seriously in China too.

I think there could be more education work done in SL on recognising signs of addiction in oneself and others, though in terms of treatment I think the best advice is to seek professional help in the real world. Online Gamers Anonymous (www.olganon.org) offers a 12-step style program and more general support, and there are more therapists with an interest in the area around now than there used to be.

I seem to remember seeing a JIRA about including information about internet addiction in the SL orientation process, and this might not be a bad idea.

ColeMarie Soleil

In the old days you used to just be able to drag people like these out in the street and kill them.

Patchouli Woollahra

Some of us still do, actually.

I'd provide specific examples, but then the police would want to speak to me more closely >:D

P.S. I'm naming my next weapon in SL 'Prius'. it seems to have become shortform for "mows people down horrifically"

Patchouli Woollahra

He's not censoring it. TypePad just has this interesting habit of delaying comment posts even if it's not configured to delay or withhold them in the first place. The price of trying to cope with trillions of comments on billions of blogposts on millions of blogs.

Cajsa Lilliehook

Parents who neglect their children will neglect their children - if not for a game, then for television or whatever other interest consumes them. It's not the game that creates the pathology. It's the person with the pathology finding whatever obsession that can take them away from reality.

Unlike the silly phrase, "guns don't kill people, people kill people" that ignores accidental fatalities and the like, you can truly say "video games don't kill people, people do."

Patchouli Woollahra

Cajsa has never had a friend get electrocuted accidentally by a Steel Battalion custom controller before, apparently.

Sidney Smalls

"To anyone familiar with MMOs, the distinction isn't trivial: a leveling system, if not properly architected, encourages heavy time investments and repetitive behavior."

Hamlet, apparently you're none too familiar with MMORPG's. The ENTIRE POINT of ANY leveling system (and various other mechanics in these games) is to encourage heavy time investments and repetitive behavior. Subscription-based MMORPG's absolutely depend on this for their revenue model.

Patchouli Woollahra

Sidney has apparently never seen the type of heavy (offline) time investment EVE Online demands xD

Patchouli Woollahra

There's a game called 'Two Worlds' on Steam, it's somewhat about trying to escape a reality in itself. Irony?

Hamlet Au

Here's the reader comment guidelines:

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2006/02/nwn_tips.html

Hamlet Au

"The ENTIRE POINT of ANY leveling system (and various other mechanics in these games) is to encourage heavy time investments and repetitive behavior. Subscription-based MMORPG's absolutely depend on this for their revenue model."

Not any, Sidney, but many. Fortunately, MMOs are moving away from the subscription model, which also means moving away from intensive level grinding. One big benefit of social gaming is it's helping push the model toward bite-sized play, 5-10 minutes at a time.

John Branch

To answer Hamlet's question indirectly: certain public-service announcements on TV attempt to address a related issue. Remember "It's 10 PM. Do you know where your children are?" Still being used, I think. Whether they have any measurable benefits I don't know. What often happens when we're immersed in something is that we either ignore reminders of the rest of the world or incorporate them somehow into our experience, the way the clock-radio voice ends up playing in your dream, instead of waking you up. In SL, Linden Labs might program a reminder pop-up that says, "You've been here for [x] hours. Sure you aren't forgetting something outside?" But personally I doubt it'd do much good--people would protest or ignore it, I expect.

Applause to Hamlet for raising a serious question, though.

Side note: "leveling system" sounds like it means flattening everything to one level, but I gather its MMORPG sense is the opposite--establishing numerous levels that one must work one's way up. Correct?

John Branch

Another note, for @Johnny: A working draft of the next DSM is available online, at http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx. I haven't checked to see how it deals with any addictions.

Adric Antfarm

I know this sounds mean, but I will be honest. I am really tired of having to read things for people who evolution should of removed from the world ____ years ago (please insert 2000 years if you roll that way or millions otherwise).

I went to have me some of these yummy things the other day (http://1000awesomethings.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/handisnacks.jpg) and I swear to FSM the label told me the stick was not for eating. Then came the lady on MSNBC saying the hot dog people simply did not make it clear to her child that hot dogs (like any other item of mass) were indeed a choking hazard since her parenting skills were apparently not up to the task.

If you need a pop-up to remind you to take care of your kids, you should not have them. You should be in jail. They should be with real parents who love them. Stop. Period.

And - A skills system exists to be gamed. I recall on America's Army they would camp the hell of one level with easy points to climb that ladder.

brinda Allen

@Adric Antfarm ...
If you're mean then so am I...
20 odd comments in just a couple hours. BS!

All people are created equal... Some are just more equal than others.

I'm obsessive compulsive... I spent 30 odd years slamming drugs in my arm...never let my child die (at least physically).

Secondlife and WoW and most anything else can ride the beef... but the bottom line is something called *personal responsibilty*.

Want to really DO something? Maybe volunteer in your community.

brinda Allen

And BTW ..yesterday was 21 years since I did drugs....(spent 5 hours here already today lol)

Sidney Smalls

"Sidney has apparently never seen the type of heavy (offline) time investment EVE Online demands xD"

I'm not even sure what you think that's supposed to mean. EVE is a good example of my point.

Johnny

@adric

I guess an Übermensch like yourself may have no need for things like "sympathy" and "compassion", but the rest of us weak humans recognise that we all have the potential to mess up sometimes, and we ourselves might need some help and forgiveness in the future, and in those circumstances we would probably think that someone harping on and on about "personal responsibilty" was being a bit of a dick.

Adric Antfarm

@Johnny

If expecting someone not to neglect their child whilst frolicking on-line without the intervention of others is being a "dick", it's a badge (or attachment perhaps) I wear proudly.

As for the superior human badge, I share that with the parents like Crap and Brenda who did not need the state or system to tell what most creatures in the forest know; protect your young from harm.


Arcadia Codesmith

People with obsessive-compulsive disorders need to be treated for their disorder by a trained professional.

Period.

If we as developers, designers or players encounter somebody with a problem, it behooves us to encourage them to seek help. That's the compassionate, human thing to do. It is emphatically NOT a mandate to change the structure or nature of our gaming in any way.

We could modify golf equipment so people with poor impulse control don't kill people with nine-irons. But we don't. It's not possible to make the world safe for people with mental illness. We need to make people with mental illness safe for the world.

Cade

This website has the Avatar movie on it. Am I misssing something?

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