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Thursday, April 15, 2010


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Ordinal Malaprop

What they are saying is that it is possible to host an SL grid "in the cloud" (a stupid term in my opinion, but anyway). They are not saying that they offer server-side rendering.


I concur with Ordinal.


I wonder if Camping is going to the cloud. However, you heard it here first people. It's no longer camping, it's now fishing!

That's right. Instead of sitting around in the camping chairs to gain lindens and prizes, you now sit around and fish for them. Great new traffic generating tactic.

I hadn't been to DV8 for the longest time since the club (Neurosix became a little stale).

I decided to check it out, noticed 15 avatars or more and thought the place was lively. I get there and all the people were sitting there fishing, in an indsutrial club, trying to fish for the pieces to a prize.

I will give the creator originality, but, this is just interactive camping. Oh well. What can you do, camping is banned, and yet, it lives...everywhere.

Check out the new camping, er, fishing!


Gwyneth Llewelyn

I see that this question will soon become a major discussion on terminology used :)

From the perspective of the end-user, what is the difference between server-side rendering, or getting a video stream of a remote-controlled SL client running on a computer co-located at a data centre? (Which has been demonstrated often in the past as a solution to get SL on iPhones and other similar "smartphones")

Sure, from the perspective of the company offering the service, they are different, and the technology is not the same (namely, LL would have to host servers and client [rendering] computers...). But does that really matter for the client? What they want is high-quality rendering on their computers, and this is what they get (providing they have enough bandwidth, of course). LL's solution might just be more expensive to provide since it will require far more computers to be co-located at their facilities, as both server and client computers will need to be hosted; and, of course, while one server can handle (at least) 4 sims and potentially 400 avatars, each client computer will, at most, just handle one avatar — meaning that this kind of service will not cost US$9.95/mo, but more likely US$99.95/mo...


Why does Hamlet let me troll his blog?

Silverfox Rainbow

what does 'going in to the cloud' mean? that term does not make any sence to me??
and its seems that only high end computers well be able to use SL to its full, feel a bit bad for those who use desktops and i know a few people who do and they have problems just getting SL to run decent.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia

Too bad LL is (as has often been the case) is not listening to EDU users or, one hopes, their own education-focused folks.

We need the ability to run a VW with UGC well on something other than "a high-end computer." In fact, many schools are slowing down replacement cycles from 3 to 4 or 5 years. Good luck with SL on those machines.

PS to LittleLost who asked "Why does Hamlet let me troll his blog?"

Every blog needs a jester, I reckon.

/me hands you the pointy cap and a colorful jumper, then says "go find some campers, k?"

Ehrman Digfoot

This is so disappointing. It doesn't seem like LL has any plans to invest in a competitive infrastructure.

Joe Linden

I didn't say there were no plans to offer server-side rendering. I said we had no plans to announce anything in that regard today. There is a big difference...

-- joe

Talvin Muircastle

Joe, this sort of doublespeak is a big part of why many of us no longer trust anything the Lindens say. You have wasted the most valuable resource Linden Research, Inc. ever had: the trust and cooperation of your "passionate" users.

All the hostility you have received, you have worked to earn.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia

Thanks, Joe, for that clarification.

I like your world, unlike many critics who seem to just enjoy taking pot-shots. It's fast enough for what I do. But the typical student-resident experience on a laptop w/ wireless (which is what this generation of US undergrad students understand as computing) almost ensures that they don't come back, ever, when a class ends.

Retention is less than 5% from my and other classes on campus that have used SL.

Hamlet Au

Joe, I've corrected the title, thanks. Talvin perhaps could have made his point more politely, but he does have a valid point that saying "no plans to announce anything in that regard today" just raises more questions. Did you mean to suggest a cloud service is planned for later on?

Joe Linden

Talvin, sorry if you took this as doublespeak. I was simply trying to answer Hamlet's original question as directly as possible.

The facts are we can (and have) run the SL client on machines that render in the "cloud" and interactively stream that experience to laptops, netbooks, low-end computers, and mobile devices that otherwise aren't capable of rendering rich 3D content on their own. That was the question that Hamlet asked.

It's also true that we're just not ready to make any announcements about how we might deploy such technology in the future. There are many factors involved in moving to such a model.

You'll have to explain to me why that generates hostility and distrust from our customers. Would a simple "no comment" have been a better answer for you?

Talvin Muircastle


A simple, straight answer without jargon would have been best for everyone. Someone who speaks such that their every word must be carefully analyzed for content gives the appearance of dishonesty. Couldn't you have said, "We're not ready for that yet," and saved yourself some grief?

I am not speaking merely of this incident. The Lindens have worked hard to lose our trust. The whole TPVP flap should show you this simple fact: we don't feel we can trust you! Many Third Party Developers are unwilling to accept your explanations of the TPVP because they don't trust what you say. In that environment, your intentions cease to be relevant. People are going to act on what you say based on how much they trust you as a person. I think it should be obvious by now: that trust is not there.

This is not just Joe, though. The new senior management never gained our trust before they started making all these changes. Long-time Lindens, people who had built relationships of trust with the community, depart at the drop of a hat, and they take with them these relationships with your customers. Those relationships are gone.

Mark Kingdon may have a grand vision, but he is ignoring the community relationships and destroying a trust and collaboration that took years to build.


"We're not ready for that yet," Is dubious too.

What we really want to know if someone at the lab is actively pursuing server side rendering. Is somebody working on it?

Gianna Borgnine

I thought the response given was clear, and I'm grateful to Joe for answering the question for us, so thanks, Joe (and Hamlet for asking)!

For those of you who were confused as to what "cloud computing" and server side rendering are, we've written a post explaining them a little clearer and what they mean for SL - http://changingworldsbuildingdreams.com/what-everyone-needs-to-know-about-second-life-on-the-cloud

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