Philip Rosedale Q&A With Shava Suntzu: Teens & Second Life, Open Source, Interoperability, Search & Topics Galore

Philip photo by Olivia Hotshot

I couldn't attend this year's Second Life Community Convention, but fortunately, Shava Suntzu (aka Shava Nerad, CEO of Oddfellow Studios) was there, and filed some great cub reporting for NWN. First up: This Q&A with Linden Lab founder and interim CEO Philip Rosedale, conducted shortly after his SLCC keynote. Read my summary of his talk here, then read Shava's interview with Philip below, expanding on a number of topics, including the closing of the teen grid, allowing 16-17 year olds in Second Life proper, interoperability -- and finally updating his avatar. -- Hamlet Au

Shava Suntzu: How much notice did the affected projects (Global Kids, etc.) have of the termination of the Teen Grid?

Philip Rosedale: We talked ahead of time with as many groups as we could, particularly educators. [See Terence Linden's follow-up below. - ed]

What resources will be made available to them to retain Teen Grid assets?

We'll help people keep things they've built and transfer them to main grid wherever possible.

What crisis control does Linden Lab have in place when the first 16 year old boy posts on Facebook how he (as venue host Gwampa Lomu put it) "got gloriously shagged by this 30-something dame?" Isn't that going to be age play all over again?

We think the controls Second Life [already] has are very good for supporting 16+. If and as needed, we'll add more during the transition.

After the break: Interoperability, SL education, new interfaces, mass adoption of 3D virtual worlds, and much more.

Will the burden of promotion to late teens be on the education community, or will Linden Lab be actively promoting to that demographic?

We don't really promote SL to any specific group. Generally our strategy going forward is to make it easier for incoming users to find the type of content experience they want before starting, and then start them directly at that content. We think this should work for all types of users.

Open source: What do you see the shaping influences on the metaverse growing up around Second Life, and what role does open source play in that?

I think that open source is an important part of developing virtual worlds, because there are many people who stand to benefit from helping a shared platform that provide a lot of value. There are many people using and interested in virtual worlds who are also developers or able to help with development, which suggest that an open approach should be the best one. We're going to increase and improve our open source programs with the hope that we will be able to move faster with more help from the broader development community.

Is Linden Lab making any commitments to help Residents have wrapper licenses (and the asset mechanisms to support that) for grid portability? [I.E. Moving authorized Second Life assets to another world.]

We're not working on intergrid transfer issues right now. We think the direction of enabling content creators to decide when the content they create can move between grids is correct. But we are not working on that right now, because we think we should focus first on the basic system working well.

Where do you see avatar portability moving in the future? Open grid? Wider worlds (MMOs, 3rd party social network integration, identity management)?

I think that people will want and need to take their avatars and identities with them across different systems. There is a lot of investment put into your avatar, it will make the most sense for it to be portable. Right now, though, we think there aren't enough other systems or compatible software models to make it make sense to work on this.

Search is kind of a mess, and not on the roadmap for this year. Are there plans to create more intentional metadata? Real tagging rather than taxonomies?

I don't know. We have a great search team that will talk more about their plans as they figure them out.

Is there a way to decide on search relevance in SL? Is relevance different for the various spheres (commerce, entertainment, etc.)?

Relevance is a big challenge and as important in virtual world search results as it was for the web. If we can do a good job of defining relevance, we suspect it will make SL easier to use and grow the economy. So we will keep working in it.

How will emerging haptic and sensory/feedback technologies like Xbox Kinetic affect SL? What should we be watching in that area in the next year or so?

I don't think changes in interface will affect virtual reality over the next year. Beyond that, I suspect that depth cameras and accelerometers (devices like the Wii) will be a big help to making the interface to immersive 3D simpler.

What's the adaptation curve for pervasive acceptance of virtual world environments?

I don't know, and I suspect no one does. But we're going to do our best as a development team to make virtual worlds easy and commonplace.

Lastly, any special words on the upcoming challenge to make you a new avatar, beyond making you beautiful? [At the end of his SLCC keynote, Philip challenged content creators to update his avatar.]

Avatar identity is a deep and personal thing, which I've experienced in my own reluctance to change my own look. It inspires me to see that depth - another example of how important the whole category is. I have faith that the many great SL designers will give me something in the way of an updated Philip Linden that will capture me!

* * *

UPDATE, 2:25pm: Via email Linden Lab community rep Terence Linden followed up on Philip's comments on the closing of the Teen Grid : "[W]e tried to speak with as many organizations as we could prior to the announcement at SLCC, and we are continuing those discussions now as well, both 1:1 and in groups. As we move forward with this process, we will be in close conversation with those impacted. There are a number of great projects and organizations on the Teen Grid, and we are working to understand what would be necessary, especially from a safety and security standpoint, to continue serving as many as we can on the Main Grid in the future. We cannot commit to serving the under 16 market for now, but we will work with educators and others to determine if and how we could allow younger users access in the future."

New World Notes guest reporter Shava Nerad (Shava Suntzu in SL) is the CEO of Oddfellow Studios, which is creating a virtual world platform and entertainment hub for MMO gamers. She regularly co-hosts the psychedelic music show Odd Ball in Second Life [SLurl teleport link]

Comments

[Ciaran Laval]

The teen grid closure appears to be extremely unprofessional with regards to educators, this really isn't the way things should be done, especially at this time of year.

Having said that, there is no way on this planet that the current controls are sutiable for any teens to be officially encouraged to come to the main grid, this shouldn't be happening at all at this point in time.

Both of these issues should have had a long lead time with long discussions to get things right, the main grid is not a suitable environment for teens full stop, this is very irresponsible of Linden Lab.

[Ann Otoole InSL]

@Ciaran wrote: "the main grid is not a suitable environment for teens full stop"

OK. LL can fix that by eliminating all adult content and activities in SL. Hope you like the results.

[Hitomi Tiponi]

Yes - the way the Teen Grid issue has been handled hardly suggests that the 'listening to the users' era is here, let alone talking to them.

From Philip Linden "We don't really promote SL to any specific group." - well maybe they ought to think about trying, after all every other big corporation with a product to sell does.

[Hitomi Tiponi]

Yes - the way the Teen Grid issue has been handled hardly suggests that the 'listening to the users' era is here, let alone talking to them.

From Philip Linden "We don't really promote SL to any specific group." - well maybe they ought to think about trying, after all every other big corporation with a product to sell does.

[Samantha Poindexter]

The teen grid closure appears to be extremely unprofessional with regards to educators, this really isn't the way things should be done, especially at this time of year.

Seconded!

At the very least they ought to keep it going for educational institutions that have already signed on until they have a suitable long-term solution.

[sazuya]

"The teen grid closure appears to be extremely unprofessional with regards to educators, this really isn't the way things should be done, especially at this time of year."

Blah blah. Teen Grid sucks, you adults wouldn't know since you don't have to be stuck there.

[hexx]

Good thing the Teen Grid is closing down. It just wasn't fair, us having all the fun while the kids had to suffer education all the time.

[Little Lost Linden]

Shava Suntzu...

Is that in any way related to Shomer Shabbos from The Big Lebowski?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsEa_M7MqYE&hd=1

[Lili]

How long before all avatars have baked-on undies?
This teen thing is way too much. How can they control them, when they can't even stop them from coming now? I hate to burst LL's bubble, but there are things even in pg areas that teens don't need to be a part of. It's not a matter of land ratings. Within six months LL will be sued after some teen griefer engineers being "molested", if some of them don't actually get molested.

Search! If nothing else, at least go back to the old way searched worked. It was wonky and broken, but at least you could find what you needed in it as long as you ignored the traffic numbers.

I hate to say it, but this is starting to sound like the obama administration. "Ok we don't know how to fix it, so we'll just accelerate it's destruction."

[Lucius Nesterov]

I'm not sure why people are focusing on the 16-17 group. PG regions will have a Disney experience, adults will mostly avoid them, bored teens will create alt accounts - very little change.

The main focus should be on the fact that the 13-15 group are no longer officially supported. Institutions in this range would find it difficult to provide an OpenSim or Open Cobalt alternative.

[Adric Antfarm]

I'm not of the opinion it's Linden's job to police what your kids see on SL or online as a whole. If you don't know what your kid is doing online, it's a parenting issue. It's not just SL really since if they are connecting they have an internet connection opening up a world of things even the most freaky residents on the adult grid can't match.

No one is trying to exclude anyone that I can see, just accepting the practice of catering to everyone is making no one happy. I want to see decisions made that benefit the grid where most everyone is. When it works well insofar as lag, search, etc - it's perhaps time to think about other areas, but it makes to sense to have it broken while doing other things just as broken.

I wonder why more of the edu groups don't get their own OpenSim servers going which provide all the control and safety they need. I was amazed at the ease of getting a standalone up and running (and horrified Linden gave that away for free).

[Ignatius Onomatopoeia]

"I'm not sure why people are focusing on the 16-17 group."

Is this a mostly US group commenting?

When my European colleagues griped about the age barrier, I was guilty of asking "what's the problem? All my students can join." They replied that European universities have MANY first-year students who are 16 or 17 and cannot be in SL for classes.

I don't think that the needs of educators motivated this change at all, but it's one HUGE benefit.

@Adric, many of us are doing just that--moving our work to OS grids that permit younger members and have primarily PG or Mature zoning and nothing comparable to SL's "Adult" rating.

Yet it seems to be lower costs, freedom to back up content off-world, and ability to transfer it between grids that are stronger incentives than under-18 memberships, however.

Like many colleagues, I still like SL for community and meetings, but there's no good reason for my classes to be here any longer, if they are just going to run a stand-alone simulation and never explore the broader world.

Not that it matters much. The kids I teach think SL's Adult content and cyber are "lame" and for older "creepy" people and "losers," anyhow...I quote the nearly universal reaction...and they don't come back to SL when a class ends. US undergrads lead pretty avatarian private lives of luxury and beauty, at many schools.

They don't need the fake version.

They complete the assignments, say it was fun and better than a traditional paper, and leave.

[Little Lost Linden]

"The kids I teach think SL's Adult content and cyber are "lame" and for older "creepy" people and "losers," anyhow...I quote the nearly universal reaction..."

Hey, didn't Chris Pirillo say something similar when he said SL is filled with Porn (creepy people), and something something else? I'm trying not to have to dig up the Pirillo links.

There it is again, the bad SL connotations, it must just be out there. oh well. SL needs another TV or movie tie in.

You know who else was into porn and creepy things?

...Hitler.

[Arcadia Codesmith]

Most college kids think anybody over 30 is a lame, creepy loser, especially in regards to sexual expression of any sort. That's been nearly universal in American culture since long before the personal computer.

As for "luxury and beauty", seriously? I lived in a dorm room the size of a closet, ate the same slop they feed death row inmates, and my idea of "luxury" was dating a grad student who had an off-campus basement apartment. And that was a top-ranked state univeristy.

Unless the college experience has changed drastically (and with chronic budget woes, I doubt it), you don't get "luxury" unless you're going to one of those pony private schools where the sole course of study is getting hammered with the other rich bitches, spending Daddy's money and trying to reel in a business student with connections.

[c3]

yeah 3d for everyone.... why every 3d tech company fails eventually no matter how much money get s dumped on them...

its like thinking people buy GM cars, or only watch Paramount produced movies...

the lack of market savvy leadership is no surprise. even jesus needed 12 apostles to sub market to different folks interests...lol

yada yada ..said all before...in one pixel ear out the other.

[Ignatius Onomatopoeia]

Arcadia, I teach at a selective private university. No "pony" here, but I'll order one for the kids to ride if you want to start the Codesmith Endowment.

But you paint their lives wrong: they binge drink but also do their work...they remind me of the UVA engineers I knew as an undergrad (just after the end of the American Civil War). Those students worked and played hard to blow off steam that built up each week in a tough curriculum.

Anyhow, the kids I teach are far from pampered Paris Hiltons blowing daddy's money. I cannot speak for other private schools, but ours are good kids whom I really enjoy teaching and advising. Our rigorous academic standards and seemingly mandatory internships and student groups, our real layabouts tend to fail out.

Think of it this way: if you have a dense social network in person, why would you be a socializer in SL, unless you wanted to roleplay? That's why you don't see so many fashionistas or clubbers in SL from the under-30 demographic: they have a tribe and see it regularly and in person.

Beside the "creep" factor, there's another deterrent to gaming and virtual worlds. The students I teach are mostly upward bound and "gaming" is decried by their antique parents and counselors as something that leads inevitably to a basement and a pair of boxer shorts (if you are lucky). In this economy, the students want every advantage to landing a job after graduating and not, in fact, moving back in with mom and dad.

But there's hope! If enough college kids don't get hired, maybe they'll move back home, away from their crew, and into the basement to discover the joys of SL.

I know, it's a tragic and unfair meme, but there it is.

But what the heck do I know? I'm just an old lame and perhaps creepy prof with his walls of books and freak avatar. And dig, I got a fourth-floor office after 18 friggin' years in the library basement.

That's what warped me I reckon ;P

[Arcadia Codesmith]

Don't mind me. I'm still bitter that I decided to go to a state college instead of jumping on the chance to attend Brown. Or West Point. Yeah, it would have been comedic gold for me to attend West Point :P

'Pony' is 'tony' for the horsey set, in some outdated parlence nobody remembers... or maybe just in my fevered imagination.

I'm off-topic, and you're right -- somebody in a campus environment with plenty of RL social connections would tend to have little time or use to hang out in VR. And that's not a bad thing.

Mileage might vary at a tech school, art & architecture institute or fashion academy, where the selling point would be creation rather than socialization.

[Beverly]

Ignatius,
Did your students use SL to study foreign languages, or to take a few classes at other universities? Did they spend all of their time in SL with their own real world class, or did the collaborate on projects with groups from other schools?