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Wednesday, September 01, 2010

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Brenek

Karl Stiefvater needs to stop carrying around that accursed monkey's paw.

Daniel Smith

Dont Panic :)

There is a thriving third party viewer market out there. Within two months, the best bits of Emerald will be absorbed into other viewers. What happened in the Emerald drama speaks to that team and that situation, but does not reflect badly on the greater Third Party Ecosystem at all.

We will come to a point where TPV's wont care so much as to whether they are on an official Linden List. Their #1 goal will shift to "compatibility with OpenSim".

GoSpeed Racer

So why the drama Philip? If you knew demanding the removal of 3 developers would kill the project why didn't you just tell them to go to hell in the first place?

Ted

Well, of course they cannot continue. How would it look to anyone that remotely resembles a legitimate open source project to confer with those that have no idea?

Face the facts, they were not even born when we started all of this. They were not born when the Internet became a reality, they were not born when governance was given to those that dictated proper relationships and what the web was to be.

Nothing new here. Get rid of the kids. We've been saying that for damn near twenty years on the web.

Yordie Sands

Nice show of strength from LL. It was the only course of action after the teenager runs wild debacle. I'm sorry to see this happen tho. Emerald was the viewer of choice. What a waste.

Dorje Kawabata

I recommend Imprudence. http://www.imprudenceviewer.org/

I especially like their Manifesto, which they wrote in 2008:
"Open, public project management. Our plans, goals, and roadmaps are laid out on the table. Our code is published in plain view as it’s written. There won’t be any sudden bombshells to disrupt your plans.

A pro-change atmosphere. Change is natural and healthy, and it is the only way to make improvement. We encourage experimental change, coupled with evaluation to filter out the negative. Users wanting a static, unchanging viewer should look elsewhere.

Designers, programmers, and users working with each other. Good software requires more than just a team of programmers. It needs designers listening to users, programmers working with designers, and users testing and providing feedback. Every role is necessary and appreciated.

Community involvement. There are many ways to be involved, whatever your interests, skill set, or level of commitment. Contributions are welcomed, not looked upon as burdens."

Ideas become reality. SL used to have standards too - remember the "Big Six." I hope Imprudence holds to their own standards better than SL.

TOBSDA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ti3xc2K98s

Wizard Gynoid

what hamlet? no mention of the so-called "hostile takeover" attempt? the coup d'etat? Arabella claims that the reason for the end is due to Jessica leading an attempt to take over the Emerald servers, which Arabella apparently owns. (Even though they are still legally in Fractured Crystal's [real] name.) http://blog.modularsystems.sl/2010/09/01/the-end/

Ted

My posts are posted with due respect towards open computing and the licenses that provide for all.

You'll witness my responses to their complete lack of education and understanding with posts labeled "Ted".

They have been, as well as Linden Lab, well off course for longer than any ship should have in faith to return.

Hamlet Au

As I mentioned, Wizard, with trust so thoroughly compromised, it's a fool's errand to try and confirm any of those claims.

Ted

"The Emerald Viewer team has announced that they've discontinued development of its popular but now-anathema third party Second Life viewer, claiming the reason is that they're unable to comply with some Linden Lab demands to meet compliance."

And we told them there was no way to truly comply to Linden's TPVP and what open computing means far before the disillusioned child cracker kids ever signed up for what they had.

No kidding literally, no mercy to those that don't believe in real open computing and use software licenses to justify their childish actions. These people get zero sympathy. They were warned. They had the opportunity to understand, they refused it.

Ted

Adeon Writer

Emerald is dead. Long live Emergence.

Ted

http://blog.modularsystems.sl/2010/09/01/the-end/#comments

I stand behind what I've stated about all of this since 2004. This is the "WHY" you don't trust these people. They do not conform to the license in which they provide the software, nor does Linden Lab. They are all out of order.

Ted

Ted

"Emerald is dead. Long live Emergence."

Ugh, sorry, wrong again. No and I repeat... NO open source project concerning the Linden will survive because Linden doesn't provide for those that will make it happen under the technical, legal, and more importantly ethical design under which the licensing was derived.

Linden is the issue. Those following are mere dweebs and those with little or no understanding.

It's been written that if Linden was removed, the technology would prosper. Linden would not remove themselves and technology has now surpassed them.

Be not dismayed, the licenses and the believe in open computing will outlast anyone who steps in it's way.

Ted

Galatea Gynoid

"Emerald is dead. Long live Emergence."

Indeed. If people really want it, people will simply pick up the source and carry on with a new team. You cannot kill an open-source project with anything but indifference. Having the "Emerald team" exit the picture may be the best thing that ever happened to Emerald, whatever it ends up being called by the team(s) that pick it the ball.

Fogwoman Gray

Thanks for the update. I was curious about what would happen with the viewer, knowing lots of folks are still using it despite the issues. Seems sensible to block it, especially if nobody is even pretending to play nice anymore.

Adric Antfarm

Ted, give us a rest. It honestly makes my head ache. I hear WoW is running a discount this month.

Let Emerald die with the dignity it had in life.

Mistakes were made, perhaps more, but you know- they did some good and this is all going to be forgotten in such a digesting exit by people who call them caretakers yet smell like usurpers.

Please delete at will Hamlet.

SoyaKnow

About time honestly. And I would like to paint with a broad brush here: I think a good many of Emerald's uses are just plain dumb.

Either they live under a rock or do not realize how their trust was abused, or they don't care, which wouldn't surprise me considering most people are apathetic sacks..but anyhoooo...

Read the comments for crying and comedy, seriously....http://blog.modularsystems.sl/2010/09/01/the-end/#comments

SoyaKnow

And what about Jessica Lyon? They are ripping her a new one on her newly created blog.

After hearing all the talks that were given, she actually sounded like she knew what the hell she was talking about, unlike Arabella.

Read more here:

http://jessicalyons.wordpress.com/

Henri Beauchamp

Shameless plug to a well established (soon 3 years old), 100% Open Sourced, stable, reliable, fully featured, 100% privacy safe, fast, responsibly coded (no server lag inducing "features") viewer:

Cool VL Viewer: http://sldev.free.fr/

Scarp Godenot

Soyaknow sez: " I think a good many of Emerald's uses are just plain dumb.Either they live under a rock or do not realize how their trust was abused, or they don't care, which wouldn't surprise me considering most people are apathetic sacks.."

Me sez: OR...... they like to use a viewer that all the hysterical ranting in the world hasn't affected one bit! I don't blame them. They like it and they are RATIONAL enough to see that it hasn't harmed them.

I use 2.1.1, so not an Emerald user. But I would like to point out to all of you cynical self aggrandizers out there, that all of the hysteria flying around doesn't change the code which works for the tens of thousands of users of Emerald one bit (with the exception of one .dll). This OPEN SOURCE code will survive in some form or another as long as people like it.

The people using Emerald currently who didn't dump it this week will continue to do so until it is disallowed by the Lab. And no, they are not stupid.....

brinda allen

First, My sentiments as well.
************
Quote:
"Emerald is dead. Long live Emergence."

Posted by: Adeon Writer | Wednesday, September 01, 2010 at 02:24 PM
***********
[email protected] Antfarm,"Ted, give us a rest."
AMEN

SoyaKnow

@Scarp

See that is the thing. If I were running a legitimate business, I would not misuse or abuse the trust of my customers.

And the whole viewer didn't harm them thing..Perhaps. Perhaps. BUT knowingly supporting the creators after the truth(s) came to light boggles me. That is what I meant by the comment I made. It isn't self aggrandizing I assure you.

Would you throw away something like that so easily? You make a great viewer then totally crap on it and its users in some dumb stunt..perhaps more stunts? No. And there should be no second chances here..not for that. With a business, when you F up that badly, there are consequences. The developers of Emerald are reaping those now for their casual stupidity.

Let former Em users move on to other non-nefarious projects like Imprudence(which I support 1000000%) or even Kirsten's, and Henry's viewer as posted above. Or the others listed on the TPV.

qarl

> Karl Stiefvater needs to stop carrying around that accursed monkey's paw.

but! i still have one wish left!

Anon

Most of the people I know in SL who were using Emerald, did not understand what happened, did not particularly care to find out, and are not especially stupid. They didn't notice anything was wrong, their viwers worked fine, they saw no problem.

Now of course, they are questioning each other about what to do next.

If Phillip Rosedale understood what life is like for the average Resident of SL, he'd request his team to make a viewer that suited most players. This is not going to happen.

Therefore, some other development team will pick up the ball and design the next generation 3rd party viewer that captures a large market share.

Lem Skall

I think that LL has no right to tell another group to fire any of its members. The Emerald team is not an actual company which does put it in a position of inferiority but it is nevertheless arrogant of LL and condescending towards the Emerald team. LL's only choice was only to flatly ban Emerald without putting such conditions. Think of it this way: could they have done the same if Emerald was a company?

And after all, it was the responsibility of the Emerald team alone to get rid of all the people who acted improperly in any way. If the Emerald team did not get rid of them by themselves and thus acted irresponsibly then they cannot be trusted and LL should just ban the viewer without putting such a condition.

Little Lost Linden

Holy Moly!!

And also, this will be good riddance.

JR

Time to use Emergence. That failing, Kristen's S19 viewer, because I hate 2.0-based viewers and Imprudence crashes for me more than LL's viewers or any other TPV I've ever tried.

Hamlet Au

Link to info on Emergence please?

Delinda Dyrssen

IM exhausted!

Brenek

>qarl

lol, you've had a couple of tough breaks in a row, I hope your third wish pays off.

Little Lost Linden


It just has to be repeated....

Holy Moly Moly Moly Moly Holy Moly!!!

Moly Moly!!

Mar

Too bad, l liked the viewer, despite all the bullshit around it.

Lucius Nesterov

AS the development team enters their death throes, Emerald users would be wise to change their passwords. The purpose of the mysterious dll might soon be revealed.

Couldn't resist a bit of scaremongering.

Viorel Daviau

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/1010849-post551.html

Nuf said. Actually...

Phox did an interview for the Herald. Ironically the questions asked were specifically regarding a recording of him and Arabella...yet Phox calls spoofing capabilities "rumors".

Funny how Phox and Arabella are joined at the hip all of a sudden. It kind of makes me smile.

Ann Otoole InSL

The black hats are still breathing. Mayhem will follow. LL has in no way impeded anything one bit.

So Emerald wake celebrations may be premature.

Renmiri

I never used emerald since I had been mostly estate managing, not building, 1.23 was good enough for me.

What the Emerald team leader did, making a prank that effectively turned into a denial of service attack to a competitor and also saving user info in the in world ll servers was very immature and irresponsible. LL was right to demand his head.

With that said, I find it exceedingly high handed that LL seems fit to decide who works and who doesn't work for another company. I'm appalled at this demand! Emerald team was entirely justified on refusing to comply.

LL is being intellectually lazy by blacklisting people, not software, on their 3rd party program. The 3rd party software can be developed by the devil itself, if it is open source and tested / verified properly, there is no need to block it's participation on a 3rd party open source program. What LL is doing - yet again - id shying away from it's responsibility of certifying 3rd party compliance. Instead they are taking the lazy way out and blocking software based on it's author.

It is a funny paradox that nameless avatars are being blocked not because of being nameless but because of being very well known.

All in all, it is is a shame that a very good viewer and a superb piece of coding is ending it's life this way. Immature developers and lazy overseers gave us a very unpleasant outcome on a story that could have turned out a lot differently had each party acted better.

Michelle Leckrone

I think it's a shame this is happened but sharing projects is so difficult sometimes
I don't really care for it too much but I think they could have done better
I'm sure they well be people making software from the original team
They will just call it something else

Jack Abraham

Calling Modular Systems a "company" is accurate only in the same sense that people who stay over at your house are company. After three days, fish, guests, and Modular Systems all stink.

The TPV policy states that a TPV cannot be on the list if the developers have previously been banned from Second Life. Phox, Discrete, Skills, and Fractured all had that distinction, from what I understand (though they have either evaded the ban or it has expired). The Lab is simply requiring the Modular Systems gang to adhere to the policy in that regard.

Emerald was an appealing viewer. I used it myself. But I'm glad they're getting their comeuppance. Emerald survives as Emergence, Snowstorm is making rapid improvements in the official Viewer, and other third-party solutions like Imprudence and Kirsten's are coming up fast.

ZenRascal Mandelbrot

Well, a spell of cool technical advances without boatloads of drama would be nice.

Ever hopeful & often naive,

twitter.com/iliveisl

why does anyone make a viewer anyway? apart from just the code challenge, no money is made from it right?

what a shame, lots of talented work went into something many people loved =)

Fogwoman Gray

Last point seems to be escaping a lot of people. This was not a "company" in the sense of it being a money making business enterprise. So the question becomes - what were they getting out of it? Why do something that takes so much time and aggravation?
In this case the answer was evidently "the lulz".
The Company (money making -possibly- business enterprise) is Linden Labs. Business can indeed reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. What LL told Emerald was that if they wished to be what amounts to a contractor with their company, then they want to vet the people who are creating the code. This is just a good business practice, since ultimately they are responsible to their customers.
The appalling thing here is that this was not done from the start, rather than LL trying to absolve themselves from any responsibility for those TPVs on their "approved" list.
From a business standpoint LL did something stupid that they are now correcting.
Just sayin'

Renmiri

LL trying to absolve themselves from any responsibility for those TPVs on their "approved" list.

My point exactly.

As for them not being a company, perhaps that was part of the problem. No incentive to do the right thing

makomk

Hamlet: actually, it's fairly easy to figure out, and it doesn't matter whether the people involved used real names or not. You just have to consider three things: the past honesty of those involved, whether their statements are consistent with other information, and how plausible they are based on past experience, your own knowledge etc.

In this case, it's pretty easy to see that Jessica is almost certainly telling the truth. She's been reasonably honest so far, her statement is consistent with the known actions of Ph0x and the other people involved (including Arabella's blog post), and it's plausible both in terms of what Linden Labs were likely to demand and in explaining why Arabella refused to release this list. On the other hand, Arabella has written some quite deceptive stuff in the past, and this latest statement only really makes sense as another attempt at spin that again omits important facts. It just doesn't stand up as an alternative to Jessica's message.

Real names really wouldn't help to untangle this. Suppose (hypothetically - these are made up names) you knew that Jessica was really Jessica Bloggs, Arabella was really Alice Bella, and they lived in towns you'd never heard of halfway across the world from you. How much does that tell you about whether they're trustworthy? People are willing to do all sorts of wickedness under their real-life identity...

Thorgal

..."If Phillip Rosedale understood what life is like for the average Resident of SL, he'd request his team to make a viewer that suited most players. This is not going to happen."...
Posted by: Anon | Wednesday, September 01, 2010 at 07:01 PM

Which is exactly what they did... the new viewer suits most avarage players very well...

Just not the ones with specific needs like photography, building, machinema, etc. (which is understandable) and ofcourse a bunch of moaning, bitching old-timer users who (I suspect) wouldnt even be positive about LL if they'd release the Emerald viewer themselves today...

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