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Tuesday, May 08, 2012

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Danielle

It took me 3 months to make my mesh avatar fitted to a custom shape. To expect a new version fitted to the "ruth" shape in a few days is uncalled for. Adjusting vertex weights is very tedious, but necessary if the mesh item is going to move properly.

Ezra

Umm, what's wrong with Oz?

If he needs a large amount of samples or a feature won't happen, the JIRA isn't the place to ask. That's borderline sabotage to hinge the fate of the feature on the 200th or whatever comment on an infinite scroll JIRA few have any reason to view everyday. The fact that the community forked up thousands and an ex-Linden was willing to do the feature is proof enough the feature is important.

Holy crap Linden Lab engineers; Second Life is bigger than your JIRA, mailing lists and user groups. Freakin' reach out appropriately. Tweet, blog, try a little more than burying a comment in a JIRA ticket that only moves every couple of weeks.

GoSpeed Racer

Couldn't LL just buy Mesh clothing from the Marketplace? Wait, it wouldn't occur to them to invest any more money to improve their product. An improved product that can generate more sales and boost their income.

shockwave yareach

For the record -- I heard of no such call out to the creators of SL to give test articles of Mesh clothing to LL.

Was this call out a quiet whisper into a tin can in the basement past the missing stairs and behind the file cabinet marked "Beware of the leopard"?

Melissa Yeuxdoux

It was a comment in the JIRA entry (May 3rd, 2012, 5:24 p.m.), made five days before today's comment quoted in the article (May 8th, 2012, 8:59 a.m.). OK, closer to four and a half days than to five.

Eros Deus

Oz Linden sounds a bit arrogant to me. Nobody hailed the Great Oz, so no-one gets the mesh deformer *Boo-Hoo*

Eleri Ethaniel

LL doesn't just have mest stuff of their own lying around? o.O

Pussycat Catnap

They need to learn to communicate better...

And they need to learn a bit of patience to wait for people to come up with content...

They've got the communication skills of Rain Man, and the patience of the dog in the Bacon Bits commercials...

Which is just sad...

Ezra

They have people to build Linden Homes, Linden Realms, Wilderness, blimp avatars and Premium gifts but no, apparently not, they can't be bothered to either write the code for the mesh deformer feature or produce any test content.

I find it offensive Oz managed to freakin' go on Treet.TV to push policy and defend himself but suddenly is appalled no one's seen a random comment buried under a hundred others. Goodness.

Thanks for giving this attention Hamlet. Rather than just bitch I'm going to produce something to send and encourage any friends I have interested to do the same.

Kim Anubis

Gee whiz, the way the Lab has pushed mesh you would think their own avatars would have plenty of mesh clothing in their own inventories to use for testing, right? If not, maybe they should pull some of the L$ stuffing out of Rodvik's mesh mattress and show meaningful support for content creators who have invested their time, effort, and money in the Lab's project.

Ziki Questi

It says a lot about Oz Linden that he made that pretty sad statement—sounds like he's trying to pin potential blame on merchants and content creators for a problem that would be readily fixed with the right communications channels. (Once again, this sounds like a Linden who has little sense of how and where residents look or receive information.)

If the Lab doesn't make efforts to improve the fitting of mesh clothing, it's not going to become widely adopted. Given the emphasis placed on pushing mesh through the pipeline you'd think the Lab would be a little more proactive about reaching out to the community, instead of making snarky comments.

Oz, if you're having communications issues, know your communications channels—let's see, the "Latest Update on Mesh" on the Blog Feed on the SL home page is dated 18 October 2011.

Metacam Oh

Just another long line of asinine comments from this "Oz".

Metacam Oh

BTW, I wonder how they even implemented mesh as a feature to begin with after all they don't have any mesh to try out.

Darling Monday

Wow, you would think a Linden would know one of the biggest issues for creators/retailers in SL is mass communication. HELLO, you need to do a bit (and by bit I mean a lot) more than replying in a Jira.

JD Llewellyn

Gah .. Oz sounds like .. nvm. One would think with the bazillions of lindens they surely have tucked under a prim mattress somewhere, they could .. oh, gee I dunno .. Buy some test mesh off Marketplace?

Yes, mesh wearers want this. Don't ask, "is it worth it?" Yes, it IS.

Charlie B.

* Existing mesh content is not usable for testing, as the deformer code requires everything to be built on the Ruth model.
* Building mesh clothing requires a certain amount of skill, and to make sure the deformer will be minimally usable, they need a range of content made by 'real' people.

Because conjecture is acceptable for residents: I suspect that he reached out in multiple venues, like usergroups, and got no response either.

Also, since Karl built the thing, shouldn't he be trying to find good test content? i believe he insisted on taking control of the jira and comm surrounding this.

JD Llewellyn

Remember that LL had a third party design team make the new viewer .. People that never used SL and were clueless.

Oz, was that you too? That would explain a lot.

Roger

OK, we all know LL gives a shit when it comes to public relations and commenting on a 1/2 year old jira basically says "we dont fugging care".
But who thought Qarl would get all passive aggressive and butt-hurt after one week !!!!
OZ and Qarl: USE THE APPROPRIATE COMMUNICATION CHANNELS TO REACH SL CLOTHING DESIGNERS, YOU IDITS. You are jeopardizing the whole thing just on your own.

elizabeth (16)

for people who shouting at oz linden about officials channels

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Fashion/Mesh-Garments-needed-for-testing-deformer/m-p/1525125#M6894

he already getting feedback from there. is quite a few creators who this actual affects are on to it now

having been informed in the offical channel

Connie Arida

Comeon, the content is in their servers already and even grabbing some demos would not be that hard. ( me rolls eyes)

Scarp Godenot

This issue is quite appalling. Anyone who is slightly familiar with mesh in SL, knows who is making it.

They could easily find this out if they don't know. And......

Just SEND THEM A FREAKING EMAIL FOR CRISSAKE!

wtf?

Rusalka Writer

Does this mesh coat make me look fat?

Dave Bell

Rigged Mesh clothing is an established technology, but not in SL.

Programs such as Poser have been using it since before SL came online.

But the clothing has to be made for a particular figure and, unless you're able to work full-time on it, it can easily take a week of work to come up with a decent item.

That doesn't magically change when you mover from a $30 item for Poser to a L$300 item for SL.

Oz Linden has an impressive record in software, but he is making it very easy to think that he has become an example of the Peter Principle.

Melissa Yeuxdoux

@Elizabeth: take a look at the timestamps. Oz first posted that request in the JIRA on May 3rd at 5:24 p.m. On May 8th at 8:59 a.m., he posted the thinly veiled threat to the JIRA. That was followed by three comments, pointing out that yes, people really do want the feature, that 3D modeling takes time, and that the request for items to use for testing really should be posted to the blog. After that, Oz posted the original request to the blog, on May 8th at 10:44 a.m.

Saffia Widdershins

Inara Prey has more on this: http://bit.ly/IXarPD

foneco zuzu

Prim was the biggest achievement of Second Life!
Mesh is not!
SL will not die cause of lack of mesh, but cause of hight tiers, treat its user base like kids, problems that are still not solved after years (Lag, crashing while crossing sims and so on!)

Kim Anubis

Saffia, thanks for that link.

I've been saying for some time, the Lab desperately needs a strong community manager who can communicate effectively with its customers. That would include not making threats or crying wolf.

elizabeth (16)

@melissa - can point to times. like you say it also shows what he did. thats whats important. he actual listened, fessed up and fixed it. never used to be that way at the lab

dont understand why people still wants to keep shouting at him for that. like somehow we get more points for doing this and can level up in the game or something

+

@kim - i dont think we need a community manager. we had all them community managers in the past. at one extreme some saw their job as if they were negotiating on our behalf at a nuclear arms summit within the company. at the other extreme some only ever gave us cuddles and huggies bc they saw their job as managing and massaging us, not the product itself

most fell somewhere in between. the main thing is that community managers cant actual do stuff themselves for us. can only advocate for it

i much rather be able to advocate and talk to the man directly myself. no matter how grumpy the man gets sometimes. specially when the man goes: oh! yes ok. never thought of that. i will do it. and then he does and it actual happens

Aurelia Chauveau

I just found out about this call for mesh items from a group in-world, I didn't know of the call for it before now. I would like to send items, as I am a designer, however I don't design on the RUTH avatar, (I use the standard sizing system) so anything I have already is not going to help. I definitely would need some time to create something new before I could send something over. I do think the mesh deformer is something customers want, if you read the forum, there are lots of avatars wont buy mesh with standard sizing due to the clothing not fitting correctly.
I don't read the forum every day, or SL's blog every day, but I do log into SL every day - surely a messege on the log-in screen a call for mesh items would have been seen by everyone.

shockwave yareach

A "Community Laison" that talks to the various people in the different communities and gets a feel for what's really going on inworld would be a great idea. But this is contrary to what LL seems to be hellbent on doing -- seperating the employees from the product. They don't want Lindens getting chummy with the customers. They actively got rid of those Lindens who did so (waves to Blue).

Someone years back decreed that for the company to grow, it would have to abandon its small-time customer oriented and friendly little business mentality and behave like a giant corporation. Thus walls were erected between the Lindens and the rest of the world they created. Getting a Linden to help you with a problem? Heck, you cannot even get Concierge anymore, and we're PAYING for that service!

I don't know whose 1940 manual of business operations LL is reading. But today is 2012 and running the place like it's MegaConglomocorps where nobody has to care about customers because we are replacable is a fast track to losing those customers, and not getting the replacements. Word travels! And you think we aren't still talking about that guy who lost nearly all his islands because his credit card got stolen and no Lindens would give him a week's grace period to get the replacement card? 3Grand a month sales, flushed down the toilet, just like that.

LL needs to regain its customer first attitude. We are paying money for a service -- an easily dumped entertainment venue. They are here to serve us; not the other way around.

Vivienne

Well, this reflects the real demand for this piece of software, which was pushed by a handful of people for a variety of reasons. Of which a minrity actually cares about SL. While 99,99 percent of SL residents just don´t care about these fancy "mesh clothes" at all.

Vanadis Falconer

This Mesh is a mess!
It´s a terrible sign to young girls that they have to adjust their bodys to fit into the clothes.
I´m a slim and tall RL-girl and avatar and I cant fit into size 1 or size 2 of Mesh.
Qarl's Mesh Deformer is a must or MESH should not be used to clothing

Helena

Vivienne, you're correct about a lot of SL residents not bothering with mesh. I can't find anything that fits my avatar correctly. Even the supposedly standard sizes vary from designer to designer and from style to style. My only option would be to find a size close to fitting then editing a copy of my shape and saving an edited shape in each clothing folder. IMO, trying demos to find a good fit is tiresome and personally I've given up. I'm in SL to have fun, not to be frustrated trying to get my clothes to fit. And mesh clothing just doesn't look as good as prim clothes. A lot of my SL friends feel the same, and a lot of them don't have a computer that can handle running a viewer that supports mesh.

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