Oz Linden on the Mesh Deformer: We Want it in SL's Viewer

Here's an update from Linden Lab's Director of Open Development Scott "Oz Linden" Lawrence on the need for mesh samples from SL content creators in order to test the mesh deformer, which he previously suggested might not be integrated at all, if Linden didn't get enough test items. He makes the update in the comment thread of the blog of Nalates Urriah, and as he explains there, his goal in stating the need so drastically was to motivate SLers to contribute:

Really, the very last thing I want is kill this project, and I’m going to keep trying until we get it done. Maybe this time my way of getting attention was just a little drastic, but it was in a good cause.

Read the rest here. Progress on the deformer seems to be happening now, but if anything, this incident illustrates one thing:

The trouble Linden Lab and SL content creators have in clearly communicating with each other on a central, easily accessible channel that as many users as possible can see. A login-locked JIRA entry is probably not the best place to make such announcements, but then, neither is the comment thread of a third party blog, let alone a live chat session in Second Life. The official blog/community forum has become too diffuse to be usable for projects like this; at this point, I'd recommend a standalone blog and Twitter account. 

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Comments

[Pussycat Catnap]

I'd send him a 1000 samples if I had the skills to make them - despite my frustrations with how they communicate.

Lets face it: LLs communication sucks. And they're not being patient enough with this one.

BUT...

Content makers ALSO need to step up and put up, or shut up.

LLs is right, that to make this work, they need samples. And they need them from the community so that it will work with content the way we are used to making or receiving that content.

If they make the samples themselves... the mesh deformer will just end up working for things that have a 'mole build' flavor to them. That's great, if you like the company style, and ONLY the company style...

But they're actually being smart here in asking for samples from us - so they can make sure it works in 'our' style.

That's kind of different from what people are used to from LLs I guess... So maybe that's why some are surprised at the request.

But its the right way to do it. Get the tool, get the samples that are similar to those the tool will -actually- be used for, marry them as best as possible... then release it.

So if you've got any mesh, mock it up their way, and send it in. Or at least let them know you're working on getting your mesh ready to send in and will have ti 'soon as you can' so that they don't make any more of these panic statements. :)

[Ezra]

The secondlife.com blog and forums would be fine.

I always know the release notes of every new Second Life server version because Oskar Linden is very dependable about posting a sticky on the Server section of the forums the day before new server versions are pushed. If Oz has something to say to the Mesh community...well why not communicate on the forums like Oskar successfully does?

Oz has now this one instance by posting a message on the Fashion boards after the backlash, so that's good. If he keeps it up for everything he needs for the mesh deformer or anything else, I'm sure it'll become a habit for interested parties to check the content creation boards for what Oz needs/has to say the same way Oskar's gotten a lot of us to check the Server boards.

[Uccello]

Just out of curiosity, why hasn't The Lab gone shopping? Lindens have never been strangers when it comes to frequenting Second Life merchants. Actually, if they are short of cash, they can exercise God Powers and simply take copies of things.

Maybe they are looking for a scapegoat for the project not commencing?

[Pussycat Catnap]

They need mesh samples made with certain specifics - that precludes the shopping route.

In short; they need it to have some key thing inserted that makes it accept deformation - as per whatever method Qarl had set up.

- You can imply from that that its unlikely any existing mesh items will work with the deformer... meaning all us mesh shoppers will be hitting the rest button once this goes live, or demanding updates from providers.

If I were making mesh right now, and not keeping a list of my customers... well, I fully expect a LOT of mesh stores to be hit with nasty backlash if they don't hand out updates...

FURTHER...

They need items textured a certain way. They want things like simple checkerboard and / or stripe patterns, so they can compare "stretch marks."

If you've ever worked with 'Wardrobe Wizard' in Poser, a similar sort of deformer tool - you know that it very quickly exposes items made with badly placed polygons... they stretch textures in horrid ways, or get triangle bumps poking in or out, and so on...

- So this will also be a 'make or break' moment for many mesh makers in SL, as those who don't put their polys in the right places will get sidelined... whereas LLs needs to know where people -are- putting them so they can try and see if the deformer can handle this with as little distortion as possible...

Short version: needs meshes made to be used for the deformer, and textured for testing not 'sale'.

[shockwave yareach]

Uccello: Good point. They already know where the meshes are; all they have to do is snarf some and test away. And since there will be no way of knowing who volunteered and offered Mesh tests articles (to whom incidently), even if they got a million test meshes, they could easily say nobody bothered to give them anything so the whole thing is shelved.

You're right -- it sounds like someone is looking for a way to blame the customers again rather than doing the hard (but right) thing of giving the customers what they asked for. It wouldn't exactly be the first time the lab has blamed us for its failures...

[Rusalka Writer]

I'd send samples but I've been waiting to create mesh clothing until there's a deformer.

[Kim Anubis]

I know I'm not the only one who has been in the awkward and painful position of having to make excuses for the Lab's treatment of its customers. But I doubt anyone is as sick of it as I am at this moment.

Someone official, please come out and apologize for this corporate representative's unprofessional communication on an official company channel. Then, going forward, please hire a professional to communicate through official channels instead of some random Linden's Tweet to someone I don't know or unofficial comment on a non-Linden blog I don't read or the official unsmiling avatar picture of the day. Thanks in advance.

[Charlie B.]

Although it's been stated a number of times in a wide range of areas and by Lindens, bloggers and interested parties, I'll say it again for the benefit of others like Shockwave and Uccello who apparently haven't read the posts all the way through:
The deformer was built to support meshes made from the Ruth model. Almost none of the content currently on the marketplace is made from the Ruth model. LL can't just grab random content from the marketplace because it won't allow for good tests. Pussycat also brings up the need for specific texturing that will allow testers to see if it's distorting or not.

[Kim]

I too am not going to develop ANY clothing until the mesh deformer is released. Mesh clothing without the deformer is unacceptable and a waste of time.

I get it--Oz Linden expects SL content creators to do LL's job for them. The arrogance is towering.

How about this: Hire some freelancers to create the samples, and do in-house QA, then release to Beta grid. Invest in your own platform. Invest in your customers. And stop hanging the blame on them.

[Liz]

As a fashion addicted non-default sized avatar my conclusion after some months of mesh shopping:

It does not work!1!!

[Dave Bell]

I am not sure if Oz Linden realises just how long it takes to create an item of Mesh clothing.

I have not tried it for SL, but the core technology is essentially the same as for Poser--a mesh object with a skeleton that matches the figure using it. And you have to make that object to take into account the details of the figure, and the way the program displays the result.

Yes, I have Wardrobe Wizard.

If Oz Linden wants specific test items, he needs to take into account that these jobs are complicated. There's a week or two of spare-time work in a clothing item., and just getting a useful patterned texture onto the Mesh needs careful UV mapping.

Anyway, SL differs from Poser in that we have only one basic figure, which has flaws typical of a decade ago in the Poser world. A Poser user can access at least a dozen fundamentally different female figures as a starting point, with different strengths and weaknesses.

I'm inclined to think that a revised AV figure should have come into use before Mesh was launched. It could have minimised some of the flaws without breaking animations or texturing. Mesh clothing, and now the Deformer, would make such a change far more difficult.

[Ann Otoole InSL]

we need the delete all scripts in object under edit and the z axis offset slider. These seem to be simple wins. where are they? why are they not already in the LL client?