« Defunct Glitch MMO Turned into Web-Based Text Adventure | Main | Disney Infinity's Toybox Looks a Lot Like Minecraft »

Tuesday, January 15, 2013


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Building an impressive looking artsy showpiece sim is good, but do we expect them to last forever if they're the sorts of places people only visit maybe once or twice and then forget about? Places that don't get any kind of promotion from their owners and don't have a "community" that's "invested and organized" in or around the region? Places only known about by a few oldbies?

I wish that wasn't the case, but No, I don't think so. Sometimes owners have a medical issue, or other expense and have to drop it. Or they spend their time on WoW or other interests instead of SL. Or perhaps they think it looks dated, get rid of it, and don't recreate it. Or decide it's had it's time and do something else with the region.

It's SL, change is rapid and constant.


Sounds like an alarmist story to me.

So a list from four years ago shows that some of the listed sims no longer exist. How many of those were artistic sims that have a shelf life? How many new artistic sims have been brought forth in the intervening time between 2009 and now? There are no answers to be found in the article, just hyperbole.

Metacam Oh

Argyle are you suggesting everything is 'fine' in lala land I mean Second Life?

CronoCloud Creeggan

I don't think everything is "fine" but I do think there's a "land glut", too much land not enough people. Newbies complain to LL (and mention to me) about how SL feels so empty. I suspect LL doesn't mind the region number decreases too much, if it increases "population density"

But regions do come and go...sometimes for reasons totally unrelated to cost.

leal choche

It is also interesting that the blog post where that list is from, the latest update on that blog is December 27, 2012 - not too "old" so someone who is still 'active.'

Hamlet Au

As I blogged last month, Second Life private estate ownership is at a four year low:


Actually, now it's technically at a FIVE year low.

Argo Nurmo

Hamlet, you can add another one to your list.

Seems the Lindens "took care" of the Rail Museum in Calleta today. No reason was give. This museum was a part of Calleta and SL for a very long time.

Can anyone doubt there is a plan to empty SL? I'm sure they have already estimated the tipping point.


The moving finger writes
and having writ, moves on.

elizabeth (16)

tiers are mightier than the paper it is writ on


@elizabeth (16), Tears for tiers, etc.

@Path, and the tier-payers, having paid too much for too little, move on.

Vivienne Daguerre

As someone else pointed out, the sims may be there but be renamed, moved and rebuilt into something else. I have owned two private island estates since 2005. Eight years is a long time. In that time I have renamed them, moved them, and rebuilt them no less than four times. Right now they are currently under construction into something new again.

I find to keep interest in Second Life, including my own, I have to keep renewing and changing things up. I don't think I am the only private island estate owner to discover this.

A place might not be totally gone. It may be renamed, reimagined and reinvented. We long termers (April 2004 rez date for me) love to create, and our regions are our canvas.

Ajax Manatiso

I am always having to weed down my LMs -- they drop like flies and are NOT replaced. When I first joined SL in 2007 I had a long list of romantic gardens to go with my partner. Now that list is very, very short (like 5) and getting shorter. If you connect the dots, eventually SL will be nothing but stores (the only land that pays for itself - sometimes at least)-- go buy your stuff but then have nowhere to wear it.


@Ajax, Marketplace is taking care of the stores :(

If a club or a "romantic garden" provides a good enough experience, why not charge a nominal monthly fee instead of putting out a tip jar?

Has anyone tried that?

300 visitors @300 Lindens each for a really good experience? Tier paid even at the Lindens' high(way robbery) rates.

I've long loved the idea of "Free Culture" but it has its limits.

As I make arguments to academics about free MOOCs I make a similar argument: you get what you pay for. A Stanford free class might change your world, but it won't get you a job. A degree you paid for will.

Bouncer Criss

My favorite places of 2009 might be gone, but my list of 2012/13 places is bigger. Times change, people leave SL, live in today and not 2009.

Pussycat Catnap

I'm not so concerned that a third are gone.

Change happens, especially online.

But I am concerned that they are not fully replaced by something new.

Pussycat Catnap

If a club or a "romantic garden" provides a good enough experience, why not charge a nominal monthly fee instead of putting out a tip jar?

Has anyone tried that?

Yes. Looking at 'nudist sims' - one that was nearly always full went away in the span of about 2 weeks at around end of year after setting up a weekly fee of I think 100L for access membership.

I'm guessing that they assumed that with regular off-peak traffic of rarely less than 20 people on sim, they could retain enough to pay after charging. Have not seen a single person move past the entry point since they went to that new setting.

(While I live a mostly PG SL, I used to be very interesting in that scene, and still give it a 'glance' now and then. Happened to be looking when they announced this, and went back after.)

Pay for access - something folks are not willing to try. Runs counter to the norm for MMOs.

MMOs are running to a free to play, pay for microtransactions model. The very model SL used for years.

But SL has in the last year, divorced the microtransactions from supporting the world... It may have gained more of them as a result, but they now feed off of the world rather than into it.

SL's current MP model is only viable if tier drops to 0. Any value above 0, and unless merchants are forced back onto land, land will dry up. The amount by which tier exceeds zero will set the pace of that dry up, but no value can prevent it. Only merchants feeding back into the economy can do that.


It's very sad to see. Surely there should be a "museum" status for certain sims that allows them to remain for free - it'd give people an incentive to build amazing things and buy land, knowing that if they impress Residents and the Lindens there would be a chance their sim will be permanently (or at least until new advancements make it less beautiful) on the grid at no cost.

And yes, it's not just beautiful visitor attractions biting the dust, many wonderful shops are too. As the co-owner of a mid-sized SL shop that celebrates its 5th anniversary in a few months and has its own sim we're struggling more than ever before despite regular new releases that utilise the latest trends (like mesh).

I do worry for our virtual world. :(

val kendal

so I don't get it. Yeah, I didn't get to that really great art exhibit at the RL museum before it closed, and now it's gone. Do we really expect all the beautifully built sims by talented people to last four years?

Isn't another non-alarmist way to look at this to say
'2/3rds of the list is *still* there'

and for that matter
'After the worst RL economy since the great Depression, SL still has roughly the same number of private estates as it did in the spring of 2009"

"LL lost 11% of private sims in a year when video game sales are down 22%"

Pussycat's last point is the one that worries me more, as an explorer of fine content

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Making a Metaverse That Matters Wagner James Au ad
Please buy my book!
Thumb Wagner James Au Metaverse book
Wagner James "Hamlet" Au
Wagner James Au Patreon
Equimake 3D virtual world web real time creation
Bad-Unicorn SL builds holdables HUD
Dutchie Evergreen Slideshow 2024
Juicybomb_EEP ad
My book on Goodreads!
Wagner James Au AAE Speakers Metaverse
Request me as a speaker!
Making of Second Life 20th anniversary Wagner James Au Thumb
PC for SL
Recommended PC for SL
Macbook Second Life
Recommended Mac for SL

Classic New World Notes stories:

Woman With Parkinson's Reports Significant Physical Recovery After Using Second Life - Academics Researching (2013)

We're Not Ready For An Era Where People Prefer Virtual Experiences To Real Ones -- But That Era Seems To Be Here (2012)

Sander's Villa: The Man Who Gave His Father A Second Life (2011)

What Rebecca Learned By Being A Second Life Man (2010)

Charles Bristol's Metaverse Blues: 87 Year Old Bluesman Becomes Avatar-Based Musician In Second Life (2009)

Linden Limit Libertarianism: Metaverse community management illustrates the problems with laissez faire governance (2008)

The Husband That Eshi Made: Metaverse artist, grieving for her dead husband, recreates him as an avatar (2008)

Labor Union Protesters Converge On IBM's Metaverse Campus: Leaders Claim Success, 1850 Total Attendees (Including Giant Banana & Talking Triangle) (2007)

All About My Avatar: The story behind amazing strange avatars (2007)

Fighting the Front: When fascists open an HQ in Second Life, chaos and exploding pigs ensue (2007)

Copying a Controversy: Copyright concerns come to the Metaverse via... the CopyBot! (2006)

The Penguin & the Zookeeper: Just another unlikely friendship formed in The Metaverse (2006)

"—And He Rezzed a Crooked House—": Mathematician makes a tesseract in the Metaverse — watch the videos! (2006)

Guarding Darfur: Virtual super heroes rally to protect a real world activist site (2006)

The Skin You're In: How virtual world avatar options expose real world racism (2006)

Making Love: When virtual sex gets real (2005)

Watching the Detectives: How to honeytrap a cheater in the Metaverse (2005)

The Freeform Identity of Eboni Khan: First-hand account of the Black user experience in virtual worlds (2005)

Man on Man and Woman on Woman: Just another gender-bending avatar love story, with a twist (2005)

The Nine Souls of Wilde Cunningham: A collective of severely disabled people share the same avatar (2004)

Falling for Eddie: Two shy artists divided by an ocean literally create a new life for each other (2004)

War of the Jessie Wall: Battle over virtual borders -- and real war in Iraq (2003)

Home for the Homeless: Creating a virtual mansion despite the most challenging circumstances (2003)

Newstex_Author_Badge-Color 240px
JuicyBomb_NWN5 SL blog
Ava Delaney SL Blog
my site ... ... ...