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Friday, August 30, 2013


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Metacam Oh

The only reason Second Life seems defunct and past its expiration date is the company that runs it has failed to keep innovating. Tech companies innovate or perish, Linden Lab stopped innovating Second Life and turned their attention toward unoriginal creative knockoffs trying to make a buck. SL still has vast potential but it will never be realized by Linden Lab as they still think it's 2007.

Ajax  Manatiso

And I think they tried too hard to innovate too much. I don't think they needed mesh or pathfinding, although I think they did need to find a more efficient way to render graphics (sunshine). I think most people, including many LL employees, fail to inderstand that "the point" of SL to most oldbies, and they core of those who continually remain, if that it is that shared experience in the same virtual place. Those who have loved ones away from home, families who can never geographically get together in RL, and groups of old college/work/neighborhood buddies who could never find the time to get together in RL. SL with never be the most technologically advanced "game", it never will be, and it doesn't need to be.

Tymmerie Thorne

The SL killer app is presence. That's the key.

Mitch Wagner

Tymmerie - Your first six words nicely sum up my 500-word post.

Hamlet - Thanks for the link, write-up and praise. I have to argue with one point though.

I never said SL is defunct. I took pains to say that it's still a good platform, albeit a niche.

I did say that the world zigged while SL zagged with regard to mobile, but that which has zigged might yet zag in the future, and perhaps you're right about technology like Oculus Rift.

I also compared it with manual typewriters and vinyl records. Sure, those technologies are out-of-date, but they're still in use by small, but passionate followings.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Metacam, are you using the same SL I am? Because the SL of 2013 sure has a lot more features and usability than the SL of 2006.

Voice Chat, Windlight, Materials, Mesh, Advanced Lighting Model.

But then again, LL really doesn't have to do much does it, because NONE of it's competitors are even close to it in features or userbase. It's the Queen and Champion of Virtual Worlds and has basically ruled unchallenged since what... 2004 or so? It's survived so long because it simply does things so much better than any other world does. It may not be the best at everything but it DOES do everything and it has a userbase no other virtual world (Not counting MMO's) can match. Last I heard, SL was STILL in the Nielsen top 10 games played by hours.

That said, I have a PS3 and know more than anyone that Virtual Worlds are a niche. Every PS3 owner has access to "Home" and while it does have a strong and loyal core userbase (that spends money too) it's not high percentage wise compared to the number of PS3 owners. SL is the same way.

What SL needs isn't a mobile client...gee the thing NEEDS good bandwidth and a good GPU and mobile is the opposite of that. Besides, SL is all about communication! SL IS best as a desktop client! LL should just ignore those who say "I want to use SL on 3G at Panera Bread while I'm schmoozing with the other consultant valleywags and showing off my latest iGadget" They're not SL's core userbase and nothing will make them happy, they're fickle and jump ship at the slightest hint of "the next big thing". Tech-hipsters, bah!

And what SL doesn't need is some gimmicky headset that prevents you from actually using SL like a normal user does. You know, use inventory, access your groups and friends...the stuff the oldbies here seem to not do too much of.

What SL needs is some good marketing aimed at the groups that have already shown that SL appeals to them. After all, the most common SL last name is GossipGirl for a reason. Look it up:


But no, LL can't market their world as "doll play for grown ups" while Pundits and Valleywags are pining for their Snowcrash Singularity Sandbox with a "no girls" sign on the front.

Damien Fate

While I think the Oculas Rift will be fun to play with on SL, I really fail to see how this is in any shape or form going to be the savior of SL as a platform.

How many people are going to buy a rift and decide to start playing SL and taking part in the economy here? Certainly not enough to kick start SL's popularity.

Either way I doubt we're going to see much more work from LL done on SL, most likely because they will be working on a successor soon.

Jo Yardley

Have you tried the Rift?
I have.
It CAN change SL completely and bring a LOT of new people to it.
BUT only if LL plays its cards right.

Marianne McCann

And therein lies one of the biggest issues. The lab has historically not been good at a couple of things.

First and foremost, to me, is listening to their community. No, let me refine that: capturing and providing the things that matter to their community. They've often looked for "what will being new people in" by looking at non-users, while failing to grasp the things that their userbase crave. Find that, IMO, and you make a platform that will drive people in.

The other thing the lab suffers from is a huge tech debt. Will they do right by the Oculus Rift? I don't know, but if you look at, Speedtree, Windlight & Nimble, Avatars United, the SL web interface, Avatar Puppeteering, and plenty more, and you'll find a lot of projects that were never quite finished, and developers who were let go before things were fully polished.

I love where we arem don't get me wrong... but I can't help but feel some sorrow for what could have been.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Jo, of course I haven't tried the Rift, I wasn't going to spend $300 to kickstart a project that might not ever deliver, especially with no guarantees that it would support anything I use.

Look at the list of Oculus games! It's mostly TBD/in the future! DOOM 3, that game that was going to be bundled with the thing, still has no support for it!

The only thing I use that has "any" support for it is SL and then only in one specific TPV.

And I told everyone that when I use SL I'm using inventory, friends lists, groups, chat, None of those things of them were shown in that video of Oculus in Berlin.

When you used Oculus, Jo, did you use your inventory, did you chat, did you use objects in SL, or did you just walk around going ooh and ahh at the stereoscopic 3D. and how nice your region looks.

And if you think people are going to spend $300 on what is basically a second monitor that doesn't work with the most common applications... in use when most people's tech budgets are at their limit already....well I don't know what kind of dream land that is but I don't live in it. Do you think people are going to use the rift to log into facebook and play farmville or use twitter via Oculus Rift?


Philip Rosedale complains 00:04 about needing ONE HOUR himself as SL creator to get his Voice in Second Life running, next to Crashing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rv91AwOkJQ

Philip Rosedale, do join Immersive World Angry Noob https://www.facebook.com/groups/immersiveworld.angrynoob/

Jo Yardley

Of course I have not done all those things yet, because it is not yet possible.
It is all still in development.
Dismissing the Rift because of what it can't yet do in SL is like dismissing the automobile in 1894 because it didn't have a roof.
It is early days yet.
And yes, I personally would gladly pay 300$ even if those things didn't work, that is how awesome it is.
I'm sure they will fix most purely SL related issues eventually.


SL is not ready nor will ever be to be more then a passionate niche, some will use the rift, most will not even use lightning and shadows on!
To bad for the ones that dream about a mass million product, Sl is all about, like it was already said, Presence!
Not for 15min use but for hours!
And LL should really look at Marianne's post and make sure that the projects started, can be ported to an end on a reasonable time!
The insurance one has is that, more virtual worlds are being developed and progress and if Linden Lab suddenly decides to shut down Sl for good, replacements for the ones that are a presence in Sl, will be in place!
And the biggest problem for Linden Lab is not none but one, the lack of trust that it managed to deliver to its user base!

Emperor Norton

CronoCloud Creeggan @ "That said, I have a PS3 and know more than anyone that,.."

It might not mean much to a console game's with their games' quick time events and scripted camera movements but Flight Sims have long had head tracking. Occulus Rift will be a big of a revolution for Flight Sims as the electronic joy stick was. SL is pretty much a simplified flight sim.


That i can believe, the Rift in conjunction with a joystick will make wonders on flight simulators, even if the last 1 i played long ago (Il2 1946), already the tracking devices where kings!
And i don't have any doubt that if Cyber sex on Sl with the rift is promoted then Sl will have millions of new users!

Metacam Oh

"Voice Chat, Windlight, Materials, Mesh, Advanced Lighting Model."

Crono, I said 2007 so you can cross voice chat and windlight off the list, as for the others, I said INNOVATIVE. And mostly what they are still stuck in 2007 is their pricing model and their virtual land pyramid scheme. People want their own place and they don't want it limited to what equated to a virtual shoe box.

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