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Thursday, October 30, 2014

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Gealya Aeon

\o/

FredTheGamer

here we go again.. The last discussions on this topic usually start with a bold statement in support of GG or Feminism and Anita S but after 20 posts usually calms down to something worth reading, can we totally skip that this time and get to the intelligent part straight away?

why are all gaming sides taking Anita S sida, is it because Gamergate targets the ethics in gaming journalism? Or have I missunderstood the original purpose of that movement?

Pussycat Catnap

Colbert even notes it in this video. Gamergaters talk about ethics, but then only attack women...

They call their own bluff. Exposing their movement for something not at all about ethics.

And if you listen to what Sarkeesian says here - her stance is quite the reasonable one.

Dave

"Conservative backlash" is an odd choice of words for referring to gamergate. I wouldn't call a group that's advocating the continuing proliferation of torture porn within a medium that's often marketed towards children "conservative." Maybe insomuch as the group is resisting change, but conservative politicians have repeatedly sought to ban the sale of such games in the past (and received much resistance from liberals). I don't mean to imply I condone censorship, but it's not fair to associate conservatives with a group that is ideologically at odds with conservative values.

To put it more plainly: using the word "conservative" as a generic negative adjective makes me cringe in a way not unlike when someone uses the word "gay" in the same manner, albeit with less intensity.

Pussycat Catnap

https://twitter.com/alqaeda/status/524985414973935616

FredTheGamer

Well it's comedy, although I'm more of a Daily Show fan myself :)

Well, my Point was that there seems to be such backing of the anti gamergate movement from game sites, including this one. It's almost like a bit propaganda-ish. So I'm wondering why that is the case, is it becuase the Gamergate started as the "we want better ethics in game journalism" and "we don't want social jusice warriors to tell us what we should think or play". And since this is the internet, just add a pinch of crazy and a few trolls and stir and you got a ugly mess with two opposing sides shouting accussations at each other. And sadly the intelligent discussions are drowned in the fan-boys and fan-Girls yelling..

So, why the total buy in to the anti gamergate agenda on the gaming sites even if they risk losing sponsors and readers?

I'm trying to be neutral and am honest in my question, the discussion is polarized enough already.

ps. Pusscat: you could take the same meme picture and say it was about censoring computer games.

Leo

Attacking women? Last time i checked there are many women in the Gamergate movement. Seriously a little bit of googling on both sides of the spectrum helps a lot. The scandal is far from fake, it's why people like Totalbiscuit and Boogie are on their side.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Fred, you're not being neutral when you use the term "social justice warrior", as a perjorative.

GGer's might claim it's about ethics, but it's not. go read the GG stuff on reddit and Kotaku in Action. What it is, is a bunch of dudebro gamers upset that there are more women talking/writing/playing games. Deep down they're afraid that once developers realize it, they won't be the "coddled demographic". If it's about ethics, why aren't they talking about EGM, or the Xbox magazine, or PC gamer? Why is their anger focused solely on women?

Criticizing overused sexist tropes in games IS NOT telling you how to think or what you should play. It's not criticizing you, it's criticizing the developers.

Leo, a few token women isn't "many". And Leo, the scandal IS fake. And what is it with GGers using pseudonyms for their leaders. Anita, Brianna, Ron Gilbert, and others use their real names but for GGers it's all Totalbiscuit and Thunderf00t. You want respect from the media, use the names.

Gealya Aeon

Doublethink is easy ----for everyone. From the left wing, I applaud Dave's critique.

Leo

CronoCloud, everyone also knows Totalbiscuit as John Bain, its just his nickname. He is one the the bet speakers out there when it comes to games. As for Thunderf00t, i don't like him at all, a tad too aggressive and only cause more damage between the two parties. And to my knowledge, the scandal is not fake at all. Here's Totaliscuit@John Bain's most recent video interview on David Pakman Show about Gamergate, ethics and journalism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaMccosnRMc
An here is his discussion with Kotaku's Stephen Totilo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpmIrWqEUUU

Leo

*edit: He is one the best speakers out there when it comes to gaming topics. (NWN needs an edit button)

FredTheGamer

Well, I tried to be neutral and just used the term that I've come accross with " " to indicate that. (Although I'm no fan of Anita S, in case anyone forgot, I'll be honest with that)

I've seen so many discussions back and forth, I'm right now more interested in the massive backing from gaming sites, why is that?

There has been a lot of loose talka about conspiracys left and right, but what if the Gamergate movement is a threat to the current business model and some people ride on this counter reaction to push the views of Anita S?

Yet again, I've tried to make my post unbiased in any direction, so if some word is not to your taste, just replace it with a more neutral one.

FredTheGamer

Leo, good post. This whole thing is difficult to fully grasp, but the links adds another piece to the puzzle! :)

Arcadia Codesmith

""Conservative backlash" is an odd choice of words for referring to gamergate. I wouldn't call a group that's advocating the continuing proliferation of torture porn within a medium that's often marketed towards children "conservative."" -- Dave

In America, social conservatives have joined forces with neo-anarchist libertarians and corporate plutocrats. This leads to all manner of ideological inconsistencies under the "conservative" banner.

And even within the social conservative ranks, there has always been that species of "Christian" conservative who privately believes Jesus made an error when he saved the adultress from being stoned by the self-righteous mob, because that would have been a good object lesson to sinful womankind.

After all, for all the bloody gore and wanton violence against women in video games, there's remarkably little explicit sex. That particular breed of "Christian" can tolerate oceans of blood and floating body parts, as long as there are no bare boobies.

So the social conservatives Dave's referring to might not be active participants in lamergate, but there're perfectly happy to stay quiet while their coalition partners viciously attack feminists. It's only fair; there's hardly a peep from libertarians as the social conservatives fight tooth and nail to drive gay people back into the closet.

Arcadia Codesmith

Maybe the press is just more concerned about reality than about propagating gynophobic panic.

FredTheGamer

There have been posts deleted in this thread, why is that?

There was nothing wrong with the comments posted, I just re-asked the question why the gaming sites are so loyal to the anti gamergate movement and responded against the smear tactics and name calling because I think we should discuss it calmly and intelligently instead of getting all polarized yet again.

Can someone explain this?

Facepalm

I thought it was funny that until the end when Colbert shook her hand and 'became a feminist' she came off kinda Mumsy state and his jokes had alot of truth to them. Unsurprisingly a hard core 3rd wave feminist is a little flustered by a man just being jokey, aggressive and rambunctious. I dare say the masculinity must've been positively exotic given her world does such a good job of isolating her from responsibility or generic men.

She seemed nice though I'll give her that. I never disliked AS herself much, more the monumental bias of the movement. She did manage to cough up a game when challenged to say which ones were misogynist, only one though eh, presumably if she actually took a stand on them people in the mainstream media might think packman and Mario was a bit bizarre and take issue.

Facepalm

@ Kimozabi

I wouldn't be surprised if I was you, NWN has not only been extremely biased on this whole situation from the get go, but they have no shame about insulting huge sections of society. It is strange that while the main stream press disagrees with much of the movement which to some extent is fine, it is telling that literally all their rhetoric is exactly the same to the dime. They aren't suddenly going to drop their ideology, be remotely open minded or less offensive now.

FredTheGamer

My post about the loyality with the anti gamergate movement, and questioning if this is a way to keep status quo regarding ethics and business model, was deleted, oh the irony..

I agree with your observations, this has been NWN favourite topic for a while, I can only speculate why. The reporting has been very biased, I can't even recall one article who covered this in a somewhat neutral way, but that's back to ethics again I guess.

irihapeti

Kimozabi wrote: "If the problems are going to be solved, she will not be how it gets done."

People like Anita are the light shiners. They shine the light on a darkness

the industry itself will get it done. Is happening now

when any industry of any kind that is full of civilised and intelligent people comes into the light then they dont go back into the darkness

they also bring the darkness dwellers (who think they like it that way) into the light with them

irihapeti

is this thing referred to as the glass ceiling. A euphimism for why in some industries/occupations women dont progress to the top

is not so much a glass ceiling. Is more a edifice of glass floors. Meaning that when look up to the floor above, then can see up your dress

Leo

As far as i know Anita inserted herself into the whole Gamergate issues. As i noticed on her twit, it's mostly Gamergate this or Gamergate that. Not very constructive imo. Here's a TB article that sums up the whole fiasco and Anita's involvement: https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13mv3hw3xnns5d4004ceryhtzv2tfxqyq00k I would like to see Hamlet having a civil discussion with Totalbiscuit like Kotaku's Stephen Tolito did.

Wagner James Au

Total Biscuit's post was largely refuted, to the point where he even made some edits to it: https://medium.com/@SvizraLion/everything-totalbiscuit-got-wrong-in-way-too-many-words-4df407e8113c

Cube Republic

This has turned into he said - she said. It's boring and ultimately nothing very much will change.

Leo

@Wagner James Au That's a great article. It's nice to see your opinion/thought process from the other side of the spectrum. Although some parts came out a little strong, there are many valid points in there that's definitely worth looking into. :)

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