Comments on Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)TypePad2015-05-19T20:45:08ZSLHamlethttps://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2015/05/project-sansar-second-life-linden-lab-sl-2/comments/atom.xml/joe commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01bb08335289970d2015-05-23T20:01:51Z2015-05-23T20:01:51ZjoeHere is what Ebbe was really saying: "Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale A tale of a...<p>Here is what Ebbe was really saying:</p>
<p>"Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale<br />
A tale of a fateful trip<br />
That started from this tropic port<br />
Aboard this tiny ship.</p>
<p>The mate was a mighty sailing man,<br />
The skipper brave and sure.<br />
Five passengers set sail that day<br />
For a three hour tour, a three hour tour.</p>
<p>The weather started getting rough,<br />
The tiny ship was tossed,<br />
If not for the courage of the fearless crew<br />
The minnow would be lost, the minnow would be lost.</p>
<p>The ship set ground on the shore of this uncharted desert isle<br />
With Gilligan<br />
The Skipper too,<br />
The millionaire and his wife,<br />
The movie star<br />
The professor and Mary Ann,<br />
Here on Gilligans Isle."</p>
<p>filter THAT</p>madeline blackbart commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d118d74b970c2015-05-23T16:27:41Z2015-05-23T16:27:41Zmadeline blackbartthis is really silly. you don't need big name programs like maya to watch poly count or use smaller texture...<p>this is really silly. you don't need big name programs like maya to watch poly count or use smaller texture sizes. I assure that a hobbyist with a free copy of blender and gimp can do those things to with no problem what so ever. the issue is generally people choose not to because it's more work.</p>djehan commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d11777b6970c2015-05-20T23:50:33Z2015-05-20T23:50:33ZdjehanI agree with Amy, some content creators just take advantage of the fact that there aren't really any limitations in...<p>I agree with Amy, some content creators just take advantage of the fact that there aren't really any limitations in the mesh uploader...I understood that what Ebbe proposes is an automated way to force optimization. That would depend on what you upload, for instance, if an uploader sees that the inworld scale of your object is around 1 meter it shouldn't allow you to upload a 1024 texture with it, even though it is more complicated then this, but well just as an example...or when I see the flat part of a virtual bed sheet that still contains a lot of poly divisions, either the content creator isn't familiar enough yet with optimization or he/she didn't take the time to do it, an automated tool to control such issues within the uploader should be mandatory, in fact just like when you want to upload a picture somewhere and it refuses to upload it because the size doesn't comply with the limitations</p>Ronnie North commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78da799970b2015-05-20T16:52:45Z2015-05-20T16:52:45ZRonnie North @A.J. "Nobody at Linden Lab has been asking what we think. We just parse what we are being told and...<p><br />
@A.J.</p>
<p>"Nobody at Linden Lab has been asking what we think.<br />
We just parse what we are being told and pretend that our opinions matter.<br />
Ebbe will be gone and Sansar will definitely be half-baked. It's just their nature."</p>
<p><br />
Disagree i think he will be CEO at the latest until the Creative Spaces grid is 10yrs old & SL going on 25yrs old.<br />
It was in the nature they had but part of Ebbe's job has been to change office culture and ways of business.</p>
<p>2 things..<br />
Myself i think they are being mum regarding something about the new grid some part that is going to raise a huge amount of hell unlike seen in yrs so i think the secrecy thing is to make sure whatever bomb they are hiding goes off when they want it too.</p>
<p>They are lying about something and its not about SL or Sansar and whatever it is is going to be the cries in the dark heard around the world.</p>
<p>I agree they do not take in account our options as much as they do bloggers and linden elitists<br />
but they have been warned many times seeking that advice is a double edge sword.</p>Ronnie North commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78da505970b2015-05-20T16:37:04Z2015-05-20T16:37:04ZRonnie North @ zz bottom "1st cause it was aiming to a level of audience i don't wish to be with (13+)...<p><br />
@ zz bottom</p>
<p>"1st cause it was aiming to a level of audience i don't wish to be with (13+) and the few i know, like Ebbe's remark about not understanding the need of maps in Sl, makes me fear the worse about what i like more of Sl, Its' mainland continents and its remarkable effective building tools."</p>
<p>That! the map thing reminds me of the no-text policy of Philips in High Fidelity<br />
both seem to miss the mark in understanding that sometimes too different is worst then not enough. </p>A.J. commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78d944c970b2015-05-20T14:55:24Z2015-05-20T14:55:28ZA.J.http://profile.typepad.com/6p01a73d83c36a970dEbbe's half-baked statement is worrisome, but everything about Linden Lab is worrisome and that's a bigger problem than build tools....<p>Ebbe's half-baked statement is worrisome, but everything about Linden Lab is worrisome and that's a bigger problem than build tools.</p>
<p>Sansar will launch some day... half-baked and with a new CEO. </p>
<p>As SL residents, we shouldn't worry about Sansar. It's never been for us, anyway. It's a plaything for LL to distract attention away from what they consider to be a failure. Our only job is to pay for it while we languish in the remaining half-baked world that is ours.</p>
<p>Nobody at Linden Lab has been asking what we think.<br />
We just parse what we are being told and pretend that our opinions matter. </p>
<p>Ebbe will be gone and Sansar will definitely be half-baked. It's just their nature.</p>zz bottom commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d11709c0970c2015-05-20T10:58:07Z2015-05-20T10:58:07Zzz bottomLinden lab needs to be reminded, Second Life is an amazing tool to build in world, even dated and perhaps...<p>Linden lab needs to be reminded, Second Life is an amazing tool to build in world, even dated and perhaps badly managed. No other allows as easy as Second Life to build without any knowledge of any other tools (even mesh can be made just by manipulating the reg prims and converting them with help of in world tools made by users).<br />
If this is not the main goal of Sansar, obviously both projects can co exist but it will not attract a lot of the ones that are in SL now. The reason for me to hope that SL still will co exist for long with the Sansar project.<br />
If Sansar goal is to replace Sl but with a better management system, then really is to soon to say any but as yet of what i know, it just does not attracts me in any way, 1st cause it was aiming to a level of audience i don't wish to be with (13+) and the few i know, like Ebbe's remark about not understanding the need of maps in Sl, makes me fear the worse about what i like more of Sl, Its' mainland continents and its remarkable effective building tools.<br />
</p>Issa Heckroth commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116fef3970c2015-05-20T09:03:00Z2015-05-20T09:03:00ZIssa HeckrothFor those putting a positive spin on this, I am also trying to remain positive, but lest look at LL...<p>For those putting a positive spin on this, I am also trying to remain positive, but lest look at LL track record here.</p>
<p>*Look at prims - Horribly inefficient from the word go.</p>
<p>*Look at sculpties (yikes!) - Did we really even need to even bother with these? Could we not (with a dash of competence) just skipped straight on to mesh?</p>
<p>*Look at the current PE/LI system. Specifically the focus on penalizing geometry and giving huge texture maps a free pass (Penny Patton has hammered this home ad nauseam).</p>
<p><br />
So based on LL track record, I think its pretty understandable people are jumping to conclusions. This has never really worked out well in the past.</p>zz bottom commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116fcac970c2015-05-20T08:38:42Z2015-05-20T08:38:42Zzz bottomLess and less interested on Sansar, guess ill stick up with SL and if it ends ill move to Open...<p> Less and less interested on Sansar, guess ill stick up with SL and if it ends ill move to Open sim as i did once.</p>sirhc deSantis commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01bb08315818970d2015-05-20T07:23:24Z2015-05-20T07:23:24Zsirhc deSantisEasy answer - the Lab know that nothing will fly without content ergo they need to somehow shoehorn content thats...<p>Easy answer - the Lab know that nothing will fly without content ergo they need to somehow shoehorn content thats available (ie peoples stuff) into the New Thing. So they will - and yeah without guidelines (take a look at how ARC reborn/render weight is calculated per the wiki as its hilarious as in designed as we go along) the crease gets moved, let alone the goal :) Sorry, play off thingie there.</p>
<p>Without stuff new platform is as dead as all the other wannabe grids. But hey its easy to 'optimise' for SL. Just not a lot of incentive unless you are outside that 'vertical' target thats mentioned over in the search engine fiddling post.</p>amy commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78d5a75970b2015-05-20T06:55:30Z2015-05-20T06:55:30ZamyAnd if you want to make content optimal then..... ENFORCE MUCH HIGHER MARKETPLACE FEES ON POORLY OPTIMIZED CONTENT The noobs...<p>And if you want to make content optimal then.....</p>
<p>ENFORCE MUCH HIGHER MARKETPLACE FEES ON POORLY OPTIMIZED CONTENT</p>
<p>The noobs will still be able to sell, but you can bet they will learn to optimize their content fast....</p>amy commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78d5a56970b2015-05-20T06:53:24Z2015-05-20T06:53:24ZamySorry but Ebbe is right. As a creator I can tell you all it takes is a LITTLE EFFORT to...<p>Sorry but Ebbe is right.</p>
<p>As a creator I can tell you all it takes is a LITTLE EFFORT to make content optimal. But competitors just want to make their products LOOK BEST. They don't care about SL as a whole. This FORCES ME to make sub-optimal content in order to compete.</p>
<p>And I hate having to do that......</p>Arcadia Codesmith commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116e3c0970c2015-05-20T04:23:16Z2015-05-20T04:23:16ZArcadia CodesmithThe assertion that users don't know how to model/texture is presumptuous. It's more to the point to say that users...<p>The assertion that users don't know how to model/texture is presumptuous. It's more to the point to say that users at any skill level are hardly going to be willing to optimize content when optimization standards are not only not enforced, they're not even published.</p>
<p>If you think professional studio artists would hew to optimization standards if the studio refused to give them any such standards, you've never worked with artists.</p>
<p>If you want optimized content, bake the optimization algorithms into the integrated object creation suite. If you're not willing to provide a comprehensive integrated object creation suite, stop bitching about the users. We're not the problem. We do the best we can with the tools we have available. You want better work, give us better tools.</p>Metacam Oh commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116de07970c2015-05-20T03:08:38Z2015-05-20T03:08:38ZMetacam OhAnother walled garden eh? They never learn.<p>Another walled garden eh? They never learn.</p>Amanda Dallin commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01bb08314427970d2015-05-20T03:07:38Z2015-05-20T03:07:38ZAmanda DallinHamlet always interprets anything about SL or LL in the most negative way possible. I guess it promotes comments. It...<p>Hamlet always interprets anything about SL or LL in the most negative way possible. I guess it promotes comments. It must work since I'm posting a comment.</p>JJay commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116d1a8970c2015-05-20T00:59:39Z2015-05-20T00:59:39ZJJayHere is the precise quote "We have to understand how to deal with suboptimal content and find ways to automatically...<p>Here is the precise quote "We have to understand how to deal with suboptimal content and find ways to automatically optimize content."</p>
<p>And from that you get "filter."</p>
<p>Yikes.</p>JJay commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116d0da970c2015-05-20T00:47:16Z2015-05-20T00:47:16ZJJay*** definitely suggests some kind of demarcation, curation, or another synonym between the two. *** Then I'd suggest that your...<p>*** definitely suggests some kind of demarcation, curation, or another synonym between the two. ***</p>
<p>Then I'd suggest that your facility with the English language, or perhaps basic logic, isn't quite what you imagine it to be.</p>
<p>Any platform containing unoptimized content, by definition, must deal with unoptimized content. It is a simple logical truism. It's there. You must deal with it. </p>Birch commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116d02b970c2015-05-20T00:38:30Z2015-05-20T00:38:34ZBirchhttp://profile.typepad.com/6p01bb080124a4970dI'm so glad I made my move to InWorldz. Yes I still have some RP regions in SL that bring...<p>I'm so glad I made my move to InWorldz. Yes I still have some RP regions in SL that bring me back to play, but most of my friends are in IW now and you know, in the past month, three places I was living in SL shut down. (two of those Regions had been around a long time) <br />
I love that in IW I can afford to upload images, textures etc.. learn how to expand on the same skills I learned in SL but at no cost. *happy dance* - If I want pro type content and game experience I'll go play Witcher or spend the evening playing WoW -- but if i want to create or express myself, it is no longer going to be done on a platform that has grown bored of itself. </p>Edgar Button commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116d025970c2015-05-20T00:38:18Z2015-05-20T00:38:18ZEdgar ButtonFiltering User Created Content sounds like a management nightmare unless it's script based.<p>Filtering User Created Content sounds like a management nightmare unless it's script based.</p>Wagner James Au commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01bb08312f9f970d2015-05-20T00:33:26Z2015-05-20T00:33:26ZWagner James AuPete, I'll add that to an update, thanks, but Ebbe saying “deal with sub-optimal [content]” in relation to "optimized content...<p>Pete, I'll add that to an update, thanks, but Ebbe saying “deal with sub-optimal [content]” in relation to "optimized content like a gaming studio" definitely suggests some kind of demarcation, curation, or another synonym between the two.</p>JJay commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01bb08312f0e970d2015-05-20T00:25:17Z2015-05-20T00:25:17ZJJayIt's a pretty big leap from "deal with" to "filter." Filtering would be one way of dealing with it, but...<p>It's a pretty big leap from "deal with" to "filter." Filtering would be one way of dealing with it, but it's not logically "implied".</p>Sean Heying commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b8d116cdfb970c2015-05-20T00:10:44Z2015-05-20T00:10:44ZSean HeyingMyself somewhat skeptical here considering Second Life primitives have not been upgraded in 9 years.<p><br />
Myself somewhat skeptical here considering Second Life primitives have not been upgraded in 9 years.</p>Sean Heying commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78d3514970b2015-05-20T00:07:52Z2015-05-20T00:07:52ZSean Heying@ Pete Linden Unsure how you watched the video but was a point what ebbe said gave most people the...<p><br />
@ Pete Linden</p>
<p>Unsure how you watched the video but was a point what ebbe said gave most people the same impression.</p>
<p><br />
</p>Pete Linden commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78d2fe1970b2015-05-19T23:42:50Z2015-05-19T23:42:50ZPete LindenEbbe didn't say anything about "filtering" content of any sort, nor did he imply it, let alone announcing plans like...<p>Ebbe didn't say anything about "filtering" content of any sort, nor did he imply it, let alone announcing plans like your misleading headline suggests.</p>
<p>He was commenting on the challenges of providing a platform for user-created virtual experiences, which go beyond what pro studios creating VR content face. Whereas those pros may have a great deal of experience in creating optimized content, our platform needs to also empower non-pros to create high-quality and highly performant virtual experiences across a wide variety of use cases. That could involve providing tools to help users create experiences that are optimized for performance with HMDs, for example. It's still early in the development of our new platform, and how it will handle this particular challenge is a topic we'll address in the future, but at this point no one has announced any plan for content filtering.</p>Cube Republic commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78d2ed4970b2015-05-19T23:35:57Z2015-05-19T23:35:57ZCube RepublicI think it could mean that there's a filter to reduce polygon count on non optimised meshes. In a lot...<p>I think it could mean that there's a filter to reduce polygon count on non optimised meshes. In a lot of cases it's possible to remove 2 thirds of polygons without losing the silhouette of the mesh object. For example there's not that much of a difference between a cylinder of 32 vertical loops and one of 16 and so on.</p>
<p>If someone is proficient enough to make meshes, then they're probably able to spend a day researching how to make low poly game ready meshes. </p>Issa Heckroth commented on 'Linden Lab Planning to "Deal With Sub-Optimal" User-Generated Content in Second Life Successor (Updated)'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c78d246d970b2015-05-19T22:25:09Z2015-05-19T22:25:09ZIssa HeckrothDefinitely agree. "Professional standard user generated content" seems like an oxymoron to me.<p>Definitely agree. "Professional standard user generated content" seems like an oxymoron to me. <br />
</p>