« Petition to Keep 3rd Party Linden Dollar Exchanges Open | Main | Second Life's 12B Birthday Cake is Not a Lie »

Tuesday, June 30, 2015


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Melissa Yeuxdoux

So if you get your way, SL Civil War re-enactors will have to make their own flags... assuming they're allowed to. What symbols will SL avatars be permitted, and who decides?


Get a fucking life, dude.

Will Szymborska

Its a flag texture in a video game, who cares? There are much more offensive things in SL, like neo nazis and child pornagraphers. Do people forget what exists beyond their personal 512m plot?

Why is everyone up in arms suddenly over a silly flag? This whole thing is perpetuated by the media and everyone else is getting all crazy about it. Considering you can upload any texture into SL, without any moderation, you can expect to see more of the same things regardless or things that are much more offensive. Giving more attention to it just shows that people cannot control themselves to ignore it and use their energy to tell others to do the same.

The civil war ended in 1865, that was 150 years ago. Thankfully, the majorty of native americans in the united states are treated equal in regards to their skin color. Just because one person posed with this silly flag and everyone is all up in arms over the flags display is a major injustice to all the people killed before and after the civil rights movement.

Granted, the Civil war was fought to foolishly protect states abilities to allow slavery (among over things), a lot has changed since 1865 and the confederate flag means SO MUCH to such a SMALL GROUP of people. The overwealming majority of people today appreciate the accomplishments native americans have made to our country. The abolition of Jim Crow and the governments continued stance to create laws to protect people of all ethnic backgrounds from discrimination is a major victory against racisum.

Friends of mine who are native american are more concerned about more important things then some stupid flag.

The KKK still exists today and these are people who say horrible things about people people of all minorities and threaten them whenever they get the chance to. I think people who are going after a piece of fabric, or in this case, a model and pixels, are clearly stupid. Focus your energy on more important things, please.


it is good to see someone speak about what the confederate flag is about, and what i, my family and other African people have had had to live with for many years. i wish people knew how much it hurt to see the flag on TV and in places which are supposed to represent everyone in a fair manner. like court houses...i have been to places in sl which had the flag up.

we always knew what it meant. that we and others with our color are not wanted around that area. it is like putting up a "Caucasian only" sign.

i have allot of bad memory's with that flag.like walking past homes of people who have them proudly displayed in front of there homes...while at the same time, the mean stares we got just for walking by there home. people looking at us and then spitting. being called the n word for no reason and often out of the blue. i do not know it's full history, but for people of my color. that flag always means one thing: your not welcome here. with a feeling that your existence is looked down on, and the threat that they would love to have us swinging from trees by our necks again.

hearing people defend the flag in your last post about this hurt too, because it did not seem like allot of the people cared about making the world a better place for everyone. only people who look like them, who in my feeling already have much of society catered to them .
these are my feelings, and I do not mind if anyone disagrees. but these feelings are real, from real experiences and either way I thank you for listening.


I would like to point out that the ACTUAL push for removal of the confederate flag in real life in America is to have it removed from government controlled and sponsored locations. There is no push to have these despicable symbols of hate removed from private ownership, because we live in an open society where individual American are free to be as idiotic as they like. While certain notable retailers have removed all items with the confederate flag on them, it is still widely available.

I would also like to point out that you were very strategic, or not thorough at all when you picked your keyword examples. Multiple items come up with the keywords Swastika or Nazi. (Swastika Pasties anyone?)

Now I don't know if you view LL as the government of second life or if you think of them as the owner of the marketplace, or just your ex-employer. But the fact that they have not gotten back to YOU about this issue is insignificant, and proof of nothing.

It's just not about you.

Orca Flotta

In most countries everybody knows that your civil war had totally different reasons than just to end slavery. Freeing black people was just a side effect both sides got hung up on. A freed black slave was far better off than a industrial worker in the north. In reality it was about the usual stuff: money, power, influence. It was the military-industrial complex (north) against some rich individual farmers in the south. Lincoln figured they'd go broke without slaves, that's the only reason why he got rid of his own slaves and started to campaign against slavery. And of course all the blind and stupid people who didn't see the confusing real reasons jumped on the bandwagon.

Oh, btw, have you heard about the Wallmart bakery refused to bake a cake for a customer because he wanted the confederate flag as deco? Anyhoo, he tried an experiment after they refused his wish so he ordered another cake with ISIS flag on it ... and got it without any problems, no questions asked. And that customer had even admitted to using the confederate flag as a symbol of heritage, not racism.

So all, particularly Hamlet, calm the fuck down and don't get all hysterical on useless and misdirected "politically correct" shit. The confederate flag is just that, a symbol of independence of the south. It's not a pro-slavery symbol, and of course has nothing to do with racism. I bet the cotton farmers would've been equally happy, if not happier, with slaves from someplace else. South Africans for example imported their slaves from east india since the blacks were too lazy and weak (so they sent them off to America, LOL).

Bixyl Shuftan

Yours truly was born in the Deep South and raised in Virginia, so the Confederate flag was just simply part of our life here when I was a child. There are certain "do"s and "don't"s about the flag, especially if you don't want to look like a redneck, but to remove it from sale from stores (and the idea of taking it down from SL Marketplace) strikes me as absurd.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Would the people who fly the Confederate flag, fly the flag of ISIS? The Taliban?

Because that flag celebrates acts of High Treason. Robert E. Lee? Traitor. Jeff Davis, Traitor. Nathan Bedford Forrest, Traitor.

But did Lee get hung, burned at the stake, shot, and drawn and quartered simultaneously as a supreme punishment and lesson for his act of High Treason that helped make the war last as long as it did? No, he got to be a university president. The Man was offered command of the United States Army by the Commander in Chief and refused that command to take up arms against that army.

Every statue of him should be blown up and defaced, every street, town or other thing named after him should be named after someone else, the treasonous jerk.

Melissa Yeuxdoux

"Every statue of him should be blown up and defaced..."

It would make a great video intercut with the Taliban blowing up the statues of the Buddha and ISIS smashing artifacts.


Hamlet is late to the party, as usual.


Just two good ol' boys,
Never meanin' no harm,
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since the day they was born...

Amanda Dallin

@ CronoCloud Creeggan
"Because that flag celebrates acts of High Treason. Robert E. Lee? Traitor. Jeff Davis, Traitor. Nathan Bedford Forrest, Traitor."

Actually that's what the war was about. The south saw the US as a collection of countries not a single nation and they were loyal to their native "state." not the federal structure. I"m not saying slavery wasn't a major issue, it was, but it was an issue viewed in the south through the lens of state sovereignty. The men you list considered their allegiance to their home state as superior to their allegiance to the national government.


The NAZIS started by burning books. Re-writing history.

Get a life you hopeless lefty.


The flag is part of history. Don't like it, just ignore/don't buy it. But to remove it from the marketplace is totally wrong just like what Apple did with its games.


This thread, like the love of that stupid flag, just won't die. The flag, itself, is a dead skunk in the road of life. It stinks. It should be buried.

It does seem wrong that LL takes it's commission off of selling that symbol. They should stop.

Things begin. Things end. Obviously, grieving people need to be reminded of that.


"Roscoe, now we gots a new way to get them Duke Boys. That-there flag on top of the General Lee is EEEE-legal, EEEE-moral, and RASCHIST!"

"But Boss Hogg, that flag is flyin' by the Courthouse, too."

"Roscoe, go take it down, and say it needs cleanin' or sum'fin. Then we says we are all considerate of everybody's feelings. For 30 days. That will be long enuff to get them Dukes in jail, for good!"

"Boss Hog, you sure am slicker than a used-car salesman."

CronoCloud Creeggan

Melissa, Robert E. Lee isn't a religious figure, but a political one. oh wait he something of a "religious figure" to "southern partisans" living in the past.

Bleep them, bleep them in the ass. Lee was a Traitor, we shouldn't celebrate traitors to the country WITHIN the country. Neither should we celebrate the flag of the treasonous jerks.

jjccc coronet

Its Not the Flag, people just use it as a symbol. Ive been in Second Life 8 years now and i have experience racism through out that time, but with in the past year hanging out at various welcome areas i have noticed that its getting alot worse.
I personally believe that all men are my brothers and should be treated with equal respect. But when you hang out in Violet alot and all you hear violent hate speech towards any minority that includes people of any differing ethnic origins or gays or transsexuals every day it gets to be to much. If you fight back you are singled out and bullied by a pack of racist bigots that overwhelm these welcome areas. It is my experience that linden lab ignore what is going on completely. Yesterday i saw a video with Ebbe Linden he said he wants every to be able to experience everything you can in real life in SL. If you complain to the Authorities in real life about violent racism they are oblidged to deal with it, but in SL it is Blatantly disregarded. I heard that Linden Lab had to up its security since the Mohammad cartoon Killing in Paris. Its would seem it is taking a blind eye stance and allowing this to go on regardless so that linden lab is not attacked by the terrorist community trying to make a point about some thing


"Robert E. Lee isn't a religious figure"

You clearly do not live in my home town, Richmond VA. I recently took Jefferson Davis Highway north, crossed the Lee Bridge with a glimpse of Jeff Davis and Fitz Lee's grave-sites at Hollywood Cemetery, where another 26 Confederate general officers lie buried.

After a little journey down streets and public buildings named for Confederate officers and even our wartime Mayor, I turned up Monument Avenue passing statues (from the east: Jeb, Lee, Jeff Davis, Stonewall, Maury (Confederate Naval Engineer), and (ahem, things do change) Arthur Ashe.

Poor old General A.P. Hill is north of Jackson all by himself, buried in fact in the center of a traffic circle! Along the way I saw the giant battle flag flying on private land by I-95, numerous flags in truck windows and on bumpers next to various right-wing slogans.

Lee was a traitor, choosing his state over the nation he'd sworn to defend when taking his oath as a U.S. Army officer. But he paid a terrible price, and the loss of voting rights after the war was the least of them. One could argue he was a broken man, but he did, to his credit, urge others constantly to reunite the nation permanently. Jefferson Davis remained unrepentant.

Most of the bumpkins flying the battle flag would wet their pants and run at the first sound of musketry or the sight of what canister could do to human bodies. Their courage extends as far as putting a sticker on their pickup trucks. They are ridiculous. As for the flag in SL? Who cares, in the end. It's a symbol appropriated by haters and its meaning has been ruined for thoughtful white Southerners who might have followed Lee then but who now realize we made a very stupid choice and were defending a Peculiar Institution that needed to die out.

True Blood Georgian

I know you may not like it that the Georgia flag is a part of history but if we do not teach people that are willing to learn about the history of just about anything that has happened in the world. The same thing will happen again. We need to teach people what happen in the past. So it will not happen again, we live in america. If I remember right we are support to be a free state that has the right to be leave what we have the right to have what we want to being in a FREE COUNTRY. We may not be free any more with all the laws changing but this is how i was brought up. If you do not like seeing the Confederate flag some where in a sim or in a link to buy something. No one is making you look at it you are free to leave the sim or click the big X on your web page to not see it any more. If I offend you then to bad you dont like it try going to some other part of the world and cry something there and see how fast it gets you in jail. We live in the USA you need go grow up put your big boy pants on and let people be leave what they want to do no one is forcing you to thing the way they do.


Let's get some numbers into the issue...


There are far more important things to fix in the world than getting this flag banned anywhere. This is a non issue in real life and a ridiculous waste of time discussing in Second Life. Someone here made the claim that racism exists in SL and in most cases does not involve the use of the US confederate flag. If that is true, why not address racism in Second Life as a whole rather than rant about a piece of cloth that can't hurt anyone? It's the people behind any symbol that make it seem threatening--or even dangerous--not the symbol itself. In point of fact, the confederate flag was not adopted as a symbol of racism or slavery. After the First Battle of Manassas, southern generals realized that they needed to drop the first confederate flag called "The Stars and Bars" because it looked so much like the US national flag that it caused serious troop confusion during battle. They fixed the problem by adopting the now controversial confederate flag as a battle only flag. It gained so much popularity on the battlefield that it was later adopted as the national flag of the confederacy. Its design was the basis for many state flags that are still in use today. Ban the confederate flag and you will have to ban every flag that looks similar. And why stop there? While we are banning things, let's just ban the US national flag, too. After all, the first confederate flag looked almost identical to the first colonial US flag. In a nut shell, I'm not a fan of banning any symbol for any reason because it always ends badly. Now, let's eat and get back to the fun stuff in SL. I've got a new boat that I want to take to the Blake Sea. Anyone want to come along?

Eddi Haskell

As of today, items containing the Confederate Flag are no longer being sold in the Second Life Marketplace. Some items using the "stars and bars" have slipped through -- such as a tattoo for the "rebel flag" -- but all intents and purposes, Second LIfe no longer sells what has become a symbol of violent White Supremacy in the United States. Good work Second Life!

Rose Shadowcry

What I find stupid is the fact that the Confederate Flag is *HISTORY* Trying to remove it from EVERYTHING is like telling the people who work on the history books for OUR children. I really do not understand why people are using this in such a negative way. Looking at this in such a negative way is no different than the idiot who put up a petition for 'America' to change the name of Cracker Barrel to Caucasion Barrel because they believe that crackers never came in barrels.

This is our history people. Shut up and grow up. Heck, there's a picture of Rupaul dressed in a confederate flag dress. Everyone should look to him as a perfect example as acceptance!


It's a pity how little people really know about the Civil War. Abolition of Slavery was only the kick in the side to how the north was treating the south at the time. North was all city slicker politicians and the South the heart that produced for them. They increased taxes on them among other things which led to the South wanting to suceed from the union. Slavery was only the final straw on an already trampled on South. I don't agree with slavery but I just wanted to point out that it wasnt only about it.The confederate flag was a call back to the confederate states we use to have before the republic was formed and the all imposing oppressive government that its now becoming.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Making a Metaverse That Matters Wagner James Au ad
Please buy my book!
Thumb Wagner James Au Metaverse book
Wagner James "Hamlet" Au
Wagner James Au Patreon
Equimake 3D virtual world web real time creation
Bad-Unicorn SL builds holdables HUD
Dutchie Evergreen Slideshow 2024
AWE USA discount code
Juicybomb_EEP ad
My book on Goodreads!
Wagner James Au AAE Speakers Metaverse
Request me as a speaker!
Making of Second Life 20th anniversary Wagner James Au Thumb
PC for SL
Recommended PC for SL
Macbook Second Life
Recommended Mac for SL

Classic New World Notes stories:

Woman With Parkinson's Reports Significant Physical Recovery After Using Second Life - Academics Researching (2013)

We're Not Ready For An Era Where People Prefer Virtual Experiences To Real Ones -- But That Era Seems To Be Here (2012)

Sander's Villa: The Man Who Gave His Father A Second Life (2011)

What Rebecca Learned By Being A Second Life Man (2010)

Charles Bristol's Metaverse Blues: 87 Year Old Bluesman Becomes Avatar-Based Musician In Second Life (2009)

Linden Limit Libertarianism: Metaverse community management illustrates the problems with laissez faire governance (2008)

The Husband That Eshi Made: Metaverse artist, grieving for her dead husband, recreates him as an avatar (2008)

Labor Union Protesters Converge On IBM's Metaverse Campus: Leaders Claim Success, 1850 Total Attendees (Including Giant Banana & Talking Triangle) (2007)

All About My Avatar: The story behind amazing strange avatars (2007)

Fighting the Front: When fascists open an HQ in Second Life, chaos and exploding pigs ensue (2007)

Copying a Controversy: Copyright concerns come to the Metaverse via... the CopyBot! (2006)

The Penguin & the Zookeeper: Just another unlikely friendship formed in The Metaverse (2006)

"—And He Rezzed a Crooked House—": Mathematician makes a tesseract in the Metaverse — watch the videos! (2006)

Guarding Darfur: Virtual super heroes rally to protect a real world activist site (2006)

The Skin You're In: How virtual world avatar options expose real world racism (2006)

Making Love: When virtual sex gets real (2005)

Watching the Detectives: How to honeytrap a cheater in the Metaverse (2005)

The Freeform Identity of Eboni Khan: First-hand account of the Black user experience in virtual worlds (2005)

Man on Man and Woman on Woman: Just another gender-bending avatar love story, with a twist (2005)

The Nine Souls of Wilde Cunningham: A collective of severely disabled people share the same avatar (2004)

Falling for Eddie: Two shy artists divided by an ocean literally create a new life for each other (2004)

War of the Jessie Wall: Battle over virtual borders -- and real war in Iraq (2003)

Home for the Homeless: Creating a virtual mansion despite the most challenging circumstances (2003)

Newstex_Author_Badge-Color 240px
JuicyBomb_NWN5 SL blog
Ava Delaney SL Blog
my site ... ... ...