Interesting response to the study I cited that people who use SL derive more happiness in Second Life than from real life, from regular reader JohnC:
I HAVE received, now and again, at least as much pleasure in SL as I have in "real" life. NOW AND AGAIN. And if there are people out there who have not, then the problem, IMHO, is more to do with their ability to let go of their beliefs in what constitutes a true feeling experience, as opposed to worrying that this "letting go" and experiencing of the unfamiliar, might constitute a betrayal of their real life.
What SL and VR has offered me is an opportunity to mentally/ emotionally explore subjects and situations that in real life would be far too life changing, and possibly dangerous, to be explored in reality. Far to many people are stuck to their RL personas and when they enter a virtual world, they take these personae with them, so they experience nothing of note and leave. In virtual reality, you reap what you sow. Take for instance one of SL's biggest and longest running communities and money spinners, The Gorean. (Although LL have always been in a kind of silent denial of its existence).
How many thousands of straight up "normal" happily married housewives have spent their days in SL, after their husband has left for work, as a totally submissive slave, kneeling at the feet of some, straight up "normal" happily married bank manager, who has SL running beneath his spread sheets, as he plays the part of Tharg of Zenthorian, slave trader? We will never know, because both most likely have "Happily Married" in their RL Profiles, and they are still happily married and never likely to be otherwise. Hopefully VR will one day be a bit like Total Recall, a place where you can go to experience a life that a busy RL will never afford you the time to have.
Try spending some time as the opposite sex in SL or in a submissive relationship if you dominate your partner. These can be extremely eye opening and fruitful experiences and show you parts of yourself you didn't know existed. VR is for radical exploration of the unknown, not a continuation of the familiar.
That's an interesting point, and I definitely know people who've experimented with the virtual for the reasons JohnC details. (C.F., Why Would a Real Life Woman Want to Be a Second Life Slave?) At the same time, I'm not at all convinced there's actually a mass market for these kinds of radical explorations in a virtual space. If there were, Second Life would probably have a much larger user base than it does.
By the way: In Total Recall, it's strongly implied that the hero deludes himself into mistaking the Mars sci-fi action-adventure he's in for reality, permanently traps himself there, and then gets lobotomized. So there's that potential downside.
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It is true that this deeper side of the VR experience is at present not popular, which may simply be because it is just too well hidden beneath the “It's just a game” mentality. But if VR is to become more than just a game it must become more meaningful, and used to create these real memorable emotional experiences beyond what one real life in one small town or city can offer. I liked very much the attitude of Carmack in the article alluding to VR as a possible way that we all might one day experience things that are at present attainable for only the richest in society. I think this would not be such a difficult thing to achieve.
Posted by: JohnC | Monday, February 29, 2016 at 04:16 PM
"I liked very much the attitude of Carmack in the article alluding to VR as a possible way that we all might one day experience things that are at present attainable for only the richest in society."
LOL. What a fool you are in thinking the tech bigwigs want to give you a "meaningful" existence. The only meaningful existence they want is for themselves made with your dollars. They are hoping you are happy in your make believe cartoon yacht while you are told you need to live in a tiny, one room house, not eat meat, not turn on your heat in winter, not travel and not own a car. Meanwhile Luckey (LOL, what a name) and the rest of his Tech billionaires will be in their huge heated mega mansions filled with 50 fireplaces, central heating, heated swimming pools and meat dinners every day. Not only that he'll be in his super yacht laughing his ass off on giving you a meaningful existence. Try telling him that cartoon yacht is better than the real one he can buy. WAKE UP!
Posted by: melponeme_k | Tuesday, March 01, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Are you a bank manager by any chance?
Posted by: JohnC | Tuesday, March 01, 2016 at 01:01 PM
No, are you an escaped cult member? Seems that you are, that you would give up your free will and sovereignty to some shill like Palmer Luckey.
I call him Isaac.
Here ya go, your oculus VR Children of the Corn world. LOOK its Luckey!
https://youtu.be/vdG1w-caaWk
Posted by: melponeme_k | Tuesday, March 01, 2016 at 05:51 PM
VR/ virtual worlds obviously scare you quite a bit, or at least the thought that people like me will have our minds taken over, or our money stolen, by the evil VR producers, or dystopian governments who seek to suppress the messes with fake Utopian VR worlds. All of which is quite possible in some far off future world scenario.
But it's all rather wasted on a VR looser like me who, as you have already pointed out, has many huge social problems, indicated by my opinions and use thus far of virtual worlds. A veritable VR cross dressing junkie who was long ago lost to the machinations of the manipulative VR developers.
Well I am grateful for your concern for my sanity and my finances.
But seriously you have wasted a lot of breath my friend, I am simply expressing personal opinions that come and go like the wind through the trees, never getting caught in the branches. Whereas you seem to have some very deep seated personal issues based around the whole concept of the future of VR and how other people choose to freely use it and interpret it. It's all just opinions, personal views, no matter how strongly put they may seem, no need to get upset or offensive about it.It's ok, it's not real, it's just VR.
Posted by: JohnC | Tuesday, March 01, 2016 at 11:26 PM
@JohnC
I've been in SL for 10 years and change now. I AM NOT Frightened of VR. But I am really P'd off by the smugness and dystopian loving policies favored by the tech industry. They are all intent on social experimentation based on their latest, favorite science fiction book without actually understanding the books in question. Even when it is now quite apparent that computers and tech in general are changing our brains. Maybe for the worst.
Instead of calling halt, they are just forging ahead because they want to live the Ready Player One world and Kurzweil tells them they are the superior monkeys because they are rich/intelligent. Ready Player One was a dystopia with a message that VR should not take over people's lives and destroy society. That was its message. But Luckey and the rest don't care, they want to burn it all down. And for what? Cartoon Yachts they think will make us feel better in our one room, unheated shacks?
Posted by: melponeme_k | Wednesday, March 02, 2016 at 06:01 AM
So disappear into the forest or the jungle and live a real human life, full of sensory experiences and meaningful relationships with others who feel the same. Leave all this tech sh..t behind. My father used to say” you sound like a guy sitting in front of the fire complaining that he is hot” You just said you were in SL for ten years and more, so was I. But I knew that it was my natural home the moment I got there. I wasn't lead astray there by promises of fantastic other worlds, created like gingerbread houses to lure me away from reality. In fact I was responsible in many cases for perpetuating the grand illusion by creating little webs of other worlds that many people used as a means of escape for great periods of their life. I am not sure I identify at all with your idea of great tech industries and grand schemes of social experimentation happening at this moment in the real world. I guess I am just to dumb to see it. It does reminds me a lot though of a Sci Fi RP scenario I set up in SL of a future world run by a Mega Corporation oppressing the citizens. As I said on another thread, IMHO,as far as I can see, like it or not, some kind of amalgamation of mind and machine is inevitable in the future evolution of humanity. In order to stop this would require a step backwards to the past, as advocated by many religious groups. In fact this will probably be the outcome in the near future, one group of humanity will attempt to halt evolution, and one will attempt to further it for better or worse. It's just another choice we may have to make.
I love this quote from Martin Rees, It allows me to get along with my own little meaningless existence and stops me worrying about the future, its just far, far bigger and more astonishing that we could ever imagine.
“Most educated people are aware that we're the outcome of nearly 4bn years of Darwinian selection, but many tend to think that humans are somehow the culmination. Our sun, however, is less than halfway through its lifespan. It will not be humans who watch the sun's demise, 6bn years from now. Any creatures that then exist will be as different from us as we are from bacteria or amoebae.”
Posted by: JohnC | Wednesday, March 02, 2016 at 07:23 AM
"As I said on another thread, IMHO,as far as I can see, like it or not, some kind of amalgamation of mind and machine is inevitable in the future evolution of humanity."
You are a Kurzweil Cultist. There is nothing inevitable about inserting a machine into or onto your body. Good luck mind melding with Windows XXXXX. We all know how reliable Windows is as a program. After 30 something odd years, it should work better No? Oh maybe when the time you insert Windows into your brain, it will work by then.
Posted by: melponeme_k | Wednesday, March 02, 2016 at 07:55 AM
Most people already have machines attached to their heads all day long these days anyway,we call them mobile phones. So I don't see that it's such a huge leap of the imagination to say that in the near future these may well become permanent attachments (not that they aren't already in some cases). Although weird as it may seem I personally have never owned a mobile phone. To busy engaged in Cult activities I guess, it's just amazing how without even knowing me you have so accurately pinned me down with your precision pronouncements. Waves red rag and bull predictably advances.
Posted by: JohnC | Wednesday, March 02, 2016 at 09:51 AM