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Monday, August 22, 2016


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Carlos Loff

I hate those folks that copy stuff or resell illegally but... Cummonnn, Full Perms is Full Perms - If one person sets up an item as full perms is is saying folks to do whatever they want - Even if LL was a rightful company they would need a whole building full of people just to police this stuff - There are buttons on creation tools to check off the boxes - COPT - TRANSFER - Cummonnnnn

sirhc deSantis

The false DMCA claims are the prob here - unless there comes in to exsistance a select 'trusted'/'untouchable' creator group which sounds so likely - think of the dramahz there :( Looking forward to your follow up as want to see this other option.

(and to ser Loff your comment duly noted. Perhaps from your standpoint 'cummonnnnn' is somehow a valid response. )

Carlos Loff

Whe I grab one item I built and hit - Transfer - Im aware of what that means - Why do most people just dont get it - Have ever thought why the hell the viewers have the option to hit - non transfer ??? In a perfect pink world I understand simething must be done - but the world is not perfect - If I have a dog and allow him to go away from home without a leech on its own, in a perfect world cars and walkers would be careful with the dog and police would catch anyone that harmed him, but in RL workd if I set my do free alone I must aknowledge wat the hell Im doing and the consequences of it - If you make freebies let them fly but if you want to have your work safe give it or sell it winth less perms, according to what you want or fear


Handing out something full perm is like if I were a First Life salesperson selling my left-handed widget with a 3D model that can make more widgets in a 3D printer. I tell people "Now I'm just handing you the model to make more for yourself, but don't make more for resale or to hand out." Simply put, I know for a 100% fact that some number will use my 3D Model in a way inconsistent with my intent.

It's not my fault that they are moral vacuums, but at the same time, I need to take steps to protect my own business. I can't just let people have the ability to reproduce something I made if it will help put me out of business.

Of course, this isn't a perfect analogy -- in First Life, the person would still have to get the 3D printer and the material to make the items, and then have a place to sell them. In SL, there is no "overhead" so the temptation is great for a moral leper to ignore the "don't resell these" clause in the sales agreement and just do what they want. There is only the upfront cost of getting the full perm item.

I have made things over the years and sold them, and I've never handed out anything full perms. Copy/no-trans or trans/no-copy only. In my opinion, the only full perm things that should be sold are components that the original maker knows will be used to make more clothes, or parts for homes, or what have you. And those are sold at a higher price as the maker knows they are sold to one avatar once, and hopefully not handed out to others.

If a seller is not willing to have people do them in with reselling things inconsistently with the seller's intent, setting proper permissions are the only real protections they have. Always expecting the worst out of people is a better life algorithm than blind trust people will do right.

Shockwave yareach

Of course there is a solution. It is a small change to permissions system. Simply add the checkbox "no resell" to permissions, signalling that full perm stuff may not be sold. And add another checkbox called "no rebox" as well.

Buy a box of textures to make your own products? Thatll work. But try to sell the same box of textures and make your money back? That wont work. Sure you can take the time to put all the textures in your own box and sell that - if the textures are set "norebox" they cannot be stuck in another box, just used to texture it.


Again what i found rather strange on all this latest posts regarding marketplace scams is why nobody is asking the main reason for them.
How much LL wins due to:
Account disabled but items still listed and available.
(rl death or whatever)
Account closed by abuse of Tos Marketplace, items still available.
And more, much more.
LL is the only one winning on this issue, not only with fp items but with all that scam.
LL closes the scam account but until a dmca is filled and it can only be filled by original creator, LL keeps items online, gaining not only the commission but as the account is closed, all.

Carlos Loff

I understand a creator of a full perm may want people to transfer those items for free to others, modified or not - But If one is really afraid of resells just leave - COPY/MOD and that is all, if someone else wants the freebie than come and grab it at origin, a bigger argument for more visits - The only thing that is lost in here is that the freebie wont be taken by third parties for free with some cool MODs the first taker made but hey - Not a perfect world, if someone wants a full perm modified, come and take it and modify it himself - a very low stress to have compared with the certainty that IT WONT BE RESOLD

Carlos Loff

Although on the developers side - Shockwave yareach - Is right, the NON RESELL box would solve it all, folks could still transfer but only for free


What about making it so that in order to sell on the marketplace you need to be a premium member and/or have credit card information on file. These fly by night avis cobybot, upload the stuff on marketplace, cash out the money quickly. As many copybotters have an army of alts, they do not care if one avi is banned. The only way to do something about this is to tie real life information to a person's account and verification and one way to do it is via credit cards, paypal, payment information etc.


You have to be verified as a real person to sell at the marketplace. Linden lab knows who you are inworld you can still be a avatar. Could be a solution.


Again and again I ask, why do some still think LL will do any to stop this?
They are the ones that gain with this kind of exploits and they can always invoke the Tos to shell themselves.
Full perms items could be free, even then some would place them on marketplace for a price and all LL will do is to say, it is fp so is not against the tos to do whatever (this happened to my and my soul mate, we have a free copy/transfer only boat in world, someone just upload it to marketplace and sold it, even with the fact that being only copy/transfer, they could not even change the root prim, we filled an abuse report, we placed the original, for free also on marketplace and all LL did was to remove our Original cause it had a link to the stolen item pointing users not to buy that!).
LL only wanted to get their commission so they choose to not remove the item that was for sale and remove the original that was free, and both where the exact same object, root prim s and all included)

These are facts, that show that more then anything LL only worried about making profit, no matter how and cares anything about the rights of its users, be creators or consumers

CronoCloud Creeggan

You know, template makers like Meli Imako and others could solve this issue by taking the middlemen out of the equation entirely and hiring texture people and selling finished goods to consumers instead of selling templates to the "art-school-girls-with-texture-skills" crowd.

Then, instead of just making money from sales to the "art school girls" they're making money from the consumers that would have gone to the "art school girls" which is a larger pile of cash to begin with.


Number one reason Sansar may end up (I know nothing of what they plan to do) a system that automatically allows people to modify things and list them. This exists in IMVU I think, though I don't use it I have read about it. Person one makes a home, person two makes a new interior texture set and then sells it. Person one hates it, but person one gets money from the sales of person two's build. If LL puts this into Sansar, allowing no one to stop another from modifying it BUT have a solid tracking system then the only issue is items from Sansar ending up on any 3D object site as 3D may be used more for various mods, vr or whatever else comes along.


That would be some id love to see implement as it would not stop modding and creativity as now sadly the fact that so many item's are not mod, do.

Issa Heckroth

Maybe adding the option of multiple transfers or just a single transfer would also solve the problem.

For peoples info, it is now the case you need PIOF to open a MP store. Still, there are plenty of registered accounts that setup stores before that came in.

Patchouli Woollahra

This issue is a pain to solve as SL's origins as a creative commune basically mean all object rights are granted on a basis of allowing everything first before slowly stripping (and never returning) those rights in a system that's mainly a cursory attempt to enforce a semblance of property ownership. We don't have a ledgered way to flag derivatives of original content unlike many newer VWs, so it's always been the case that full-perms items intended for merchant resourcing or building with are mainly reliant on the honesty and morality of residents rather than technical limitations baked right into the system to enforce proper use.

God knows that's not always working out as intended, but for the most part, it does work to lock out unintended modification, copying or transfers of items by normal residents (actual hacking or the occasional compromise by errors are rare, but let us be honest, they HAVE happened before, even if LL does clamp down on them as soon as they know it's happening and why)

Valiant Westland

Here's an alternative for ALL Internet SCAMS:

Sanction scammers
Kill them all
Slowly torture
on a wall
Hanging high
for all to see
the brutal end
Their screaming pleas
for mercy
They deserve it not
Let their corpses
turn to rot
So other would be
thieves will wonder
Will I be next
torn asunder
disemboweled for my plunder
Then we’ll see
these crimes will cease
the web again
a place of peace.


what about "buying" content from other hard working 3d designers and trying to pass it off as your own???? This is what Meli Imako does. She is so worried about copy botters and people handing out her stuff free etc but she is ripping other people off in the first place. She goes to sites like TurboSquid, Renderosity, Daz3d etc and buys mesh from them and uploads it as her own items.

if you dont believe me look below
Meli imako's theft from Renderosity.com

Proof 1
Meli's Item:

Rederosity's Item By Lionlady


Proof #2

Meli's item :

Her theft of 2 items from Renderosity

Model by OutofTouch


and texture pack by ShanasSoulmate

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vintage-for-retro-swimwear/103553 See picture 3 for undeniable proof.

And if you think that oh "she purchased it and should be able to use how she likes" well here is the license agreement from Renderosity.

"Renderosity Products NOT Allowed at Second Life
September 24, 2013 4:33 pm

Tags: License, SecondLife

Second Life is owned and operated by Linden Lab. Because of the change to Second Life’s Terms of Service (TOS - http://lindenlab.com/tos), Renderosity products are NOT allowed to be used there for ANY reason.

In the past, we have allowed a Buyer to use Renderosity products for their use in the Second Life virtual world, as long as the Buyer does not sell or give away the files. However, the new TOS at Second Life gives Second Life the complete ‘rights’ over anything uploaded at their site as of the date of their new TOS. Second Life’s new TOS conflicts with our Renderosity license because it says,
“Except as otherwise described in any Additional Terms (such as a contest’s official rules) which will govern the submission of your User Content, you hereby grant to Linden Lab, and you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, sell, re-sell, sublicense (through multiple levels), modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafter developed, and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed, and to advertise, market, and promote the same. You agree that the license includes the right to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing, or providing support or development services in connection with the Service and future improvements to the Service. The license granted in this Section 2.3 is referred to as the "Service Content License."

Our license “grants the Buyer a…NON-TRANSFERABLE license….[Buyers] may not distribute the Product or any of the Product’s files….in any format for sale or free.” Given Second Life’s new TOS, any Renderosity product uploaded there (even for personal use) is in violation of our license because their TOS is ‘transferring’ the rights them. This is a very disturbing TOS for the rights of anyone uploading items to use on Second Life."

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