Transferring Second Life Content to Sansar is "Make-or-Break" for Sansar (Comment of the Week)

Second Life brand owners have been uncharacteristically quiet about Project Sansar, and reader "Rei" has a good explanation why:

Sansar is a total wait and see proposition for me. The inventory to transition [from SL] is huge. For example, I love Blueberry's stuff. (Probably to the tune of $50+ over the past year.) While I cannot expect Blueberry to care too much about that, they cannot really expect me to spend lots of money to get the same stuff back [in Sansar].

Looking at my own content (mostly buildings and landscapes) I do not have much desire to work on old stuff just bring it into Sansar, where presumably I will pay Linden Lab more to sell it. Nor am I willing to pay money to bring it in to Sansar to restore former SL clients' inventory.

I am sure the predicament is not lost Linden Lab:

How they handle it will be a make-or-break thing for Sansar. Many folks have hundreds and hundreds of dollars in modern SL clothes and avatars. While I don't think many thought of this stuff as permanent, asking folks to give it all up at once will make many bitter.

"Make-or-break" may be a bit harsh, but the question is definitely a potential dealbreaker for many dedicated SLers who've spent so much on non-transferrable SL-based content. And if Linden Lab can't depend on them to grow Sansar, it's going to be a struggle to quickly find a new audience to replace them.

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Comments

[Estelle.Pienaar]

Could be true. Could also be true that some designers offer the updates for a small upload and work process fee and others are just lazy and will therefore get nothing. Some things need to be solved by LL, other things will be solved by the market...

[Cisop Sixpence]

I don't look at Sansar as a replacement for Second Life, so I don't expect to leave Second Life for good when logging on to Sansar. I would expect to exist in both places. I see Sansar as a (hopefully) more robust and better functioning Virtual World without the cumbersome legacy support issues that may be holding Second Life back. Oh, and I'd expect more affordable land costs.

Having said all that, while I'd like to 'replicate' some of my inventory like clothing, and hair I understand that may be an IP issue, besides they may not look or function as good as they did in Second Life. Hopefully, there will be plenty of Goth clothing vendors in Sansar that have been watching my Outfits board on Pinterest. 　 Lucky for me I have a copy of my skin from the creator so if given the specs of Sansar skin, I should be able to convert and use it on Sansar (assuming making/changing your own skin is an option in Sansar). The one thing I do want to be able to use in Sansar is my first and last name that I have in Second Life. I've in a sense branded my online image around that name and look, so I have a vested interest in keeping it alive and well.

[Osaka Harker]

I think we are forgetting that Sansar will be monetized by tax on sales... will it make sense to lose money in lost sales from transferring old content? I don't think so. They first talked of free land now i have heard Ebbe talk of less then $100. One never knows but i am willing to bet no LL transfer will occur. Hopefully some brands will allow transfers but most of my content is from years ago anyway so i don't think it will be a deal breaker for me. Sansar sounds like a boxed metaverse and i will rather sail and fly the dangerous crossings then to teleport everywhere, that is my deal breaker...

[metacam oh]

has anyone even mentioned even one feature of Sansar that improves upon second life?

[Swanswhisper]

My problem is that I love fashion and have a ton of clothes and hair. I have spent a ton on these things and just don't want to lose them. Sansar interests me very much but...

[Joey1058]

@Osaka Harker If I'm not mistaken, Linden Lab gets a cut of each sale in the marketplace. So the "tax" you refer to will more than likely be one that is assessed by whatever local default world government the Sansar resident lives in.

IMVU has a policy of not permitting different accounts from the same owner to transfer goods, not merge them. Consequently there are people that are forced to duplicate well loved items. Should Linden Lab choose to force SL residents to duplicate items in Sansar, that will detract the overall appeal for many, as expressed by @Swanswhisper.

A proper compromise would be to offer to port select meshes, then ask for a small default world fee to compensate for additional inventory porting. Otherwise the Lindens will have the headache of maintaining two individual universes, which I don't think is the final goal in years ahead.

[Timo Gufler]

If you would lose most of your inventory, why not choose High Fidelity instead of Sansar? HF is open-source that allows 3rd-party viewers and stuff. Also, if they don't need to struggle with legacy content from the old world, they can design their world from scratch. I believe that that results a more streamlined experience for us.

[Flashing Merlin]

Cisop Sixpence wrote, "I see Sansar as a (hopefully) more robust and better functioning Virtual World..."

I doubt it. If the Lindens could write code for a good viewer, we wouldn't all be using Firestorm or Sigularity now. They've already said there will be no third party viewers for Sansar, so I'm expecting their Sansar viewer experience to be lame.

They keep postponing opening Sansar, so I'd bet they're having code problems. Given all the objections above to inventory not transferring, I expect they'll fail to bring over most of their existing SL support base.

Unless they can attract a new user base, Sansar might be a short lived experiment.

[patty tisane]

first sorry for my bad english. As a SL resident since 2007, I have tons of clothes, gadgets, stuff, etc etc from unkown or famous designers. Fashion addict, SL has always been a pleasure for me, to meet friends, to help newbies , to chat about sl or rl life. Many of my friends have no money to spend in SL, and the few items they paid for, they care about them. They cant think about sansar, because as one told me, " I cant imagine doing all this work again, day by day, to make my avatar look someone nice to see" APPARENCE! even if we say we dont agree, apparence is for a lot of people, essential in virtual worlds. so what if we cant upload at least a small part of our inventory to sansar? I wont migrate to sansar, if 1st) I m not sure all my friends cant because no money, 2nd) if I cant be sure the problems we all meet in SL like lag, problems of textures, crash etc etc, we know since ages, are the same , and 3rd) if my computer cant manage because the graphics are too greedy... sl is a virtual game, not really a game in fact, but I wont stop enjoying my RL , like parties, cinema, restaurant etc, because I need to buy the last, new, best gaming computer, to be able to log on Sansar, and to spend again money. I agree to pay, for the designers creations, millions times YES, but money money money, we, residents, are residents, players, gamers, lovers, singers, they.... in front, are money makers, so please allow us to enjoy what we pay since years for!

[Carlos Loff]

STOP THE MADNESS - It is completly ridiculous to eve think it will be possible - Sansar is not SL - In the most optimistic scenarioyou will be able to dowload your own stuff but with no scripts and upload it into Sansar - Third parties stuff transference, even if compatible (witch I doubt) would plunge LL into hundres of thousands of law suits - STOP DREAMING AND ACT ACVORDINGLY - NO TRANSFERS - Period

[Blueberry]

Hi everyone :)

I was pointed to this blog by my friend Mike and want to address my customer who is concerned about their purchases.

Rei, of course I care. I care tremendously that you and my other customers feel satisfied with your purchases. The reason I haven't been addressing this situation is because I am not sure what we will be able to do in Sansar yet. I am sure when it is time, Linden Lab will invite store owners to figure it out.

When we do have a good idea what can be brought in and what can not be brought in, then we will be able to plan a road map and inform you ladies accordingly.

I hope this eases your mind for the time being.
Love,
Blueberry

[Imagin Illyar]

There's no way anyone is going to be able to transfer anything designed for their avatar (clothes, hair, etc.) that they didn't make themselves, from their inventory to Sansar. The avatar is going to be different. The rigging won't work, the UVs won't work. Ebbe has said that SL mesh items will be able to be uploaded in Sansar with minimal changes. But you'd have to have full perms on that mesh and the ability to update the rigging and UVs in a third party program to do that. So creators will be able to do some work on current outfits to get them into Sansar but that's about it. Even if you have full perm clothing unless you have the .dae files you'd have to use a copy bot to get it into a third part program first and the ability to rig & weight it for the Sansar avatar.

Considering that Ebbe has also said that on opening day the avatar is not going to be in its final form - you'll have the ability to choose gender, a few skin tones and a couple outfits - it's going to be a while before even creators are able to make anything for the Sansar avatar.

[Cathartes Aura]

If anyone believes that the LL Board will make Sansar a place where everyone is on the same level playing field then please contact me - I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. LMAO! It will be more of the same ole same ole.

Cheaper land for Linden pets and land barons, continuing the policy they have implemented for the past 10 years in SL. Average Joe will pay more to "compete" with them. Certain "pets" will continue to get "favors" from LL. Certain content creators will continue to be favored - the LL board picks winners and losers.

For anyone to suggest that the LL board has seen the light from their massively incompetent handling of SL and that they will operate Sansar in an manner that is honest and open is off their rocker.

Sansar is DOA because no one with an ounce of brains or who isn't a Linden "pet" believes anything coming out of LL HQ. They lost all credibility years ago and have done diddly squat in the years since to regain it.

Arrogance and hubris. These are the 2 things the LL Board has exhibited over and over again for the last 10 years.

Sansar is a continuation of that thinking. Ole Mitch Kapor and ole Ebbs, just like Mark Crookerburg, think their users/residents are too stupid to see that the policies they implement are screwing 99% of users/residents to benefit a select few.

If you are Average Joe resident, and not a "pet", then simply refuse to go along with their nonsense. Let them crash and burn. Expose their incompetence. Wise up Average Joe. Ole Ebbs and ole Mitch are not looking out for you.

And the Turkey buzzard goes... Hiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssssss ;)

[Carlos Loff]

Save hundreds and hundreds of bucks and stress - START NOW - http://www.digiworldz.com/store/aff.php?aff=22

[JohnC]

There is a lot of talk here based on Sansar being a kind of SL 2. The idea of transferring content in itself assumes that it will be a similar experience. As far as I know, based on the little info that has leaked out, Sansar will be like SL only "in spirit". If, as I suspect, it will be a lot less open world sandbox based than SL, then the whole idea of hanging out there in the way many people do in SL may not exist. And so the idea of having a personalized Avatar will be less meaningful. It could be far more focused like other game engines, and the only places to visit will be specific VR worlds created for specific reasons like games, RL training, virtual tourism, art exhibits, etc. These worlds may be more self contained, almost like any other game platform would be, where the avatar is provided along with the experience and choice only exists within the sphere of the experience offered i.e. if its a game of mouse find the cheese the avatars will look like mice. Maybe the misleading bit here is the idea of content creators as they are in SL, people assume this means people making clothes randomly as they please for avatars to buy to wander around the whole place in. But it might mean making outfits that individual world creators purchase to enhance their specific experience, as is done in any other game out there. Of course someone could theoretically create an experience in Sansar that mimicked SL, where people could go to dress up and hang out. Would end up being like creating Inworldz in Sansar. Who knows :)

[Clairholm]

Blueberry - thanks, we know you care, it shows in your work :)

[Scarp Godenot]

As far as I understand it, and that is directly from the mouth of Ebbe Altberg, that second life isn't going anywhere. Linden Labs expects it to continue indefinitely.

And also from Ebbe: SL and Sansar are going to be different experiences.

And as I understand it, the underlying code will make it impossible to transfer stuff there anyway because it is so different from SL code.

Just my two cents worth.

[Shockwave yareach]

You can claim it isnt a replacement for SL all you want. But i think that LL would love to turn SL off and get rid of all us troublesome customers. And as soon as Sansar is making more bank than sl, that is what will happen.

But considering my group wont be there, my inventory wont be there, my dev area wont be there and my home wont be there, i have zero reason to be there. If there was a single grid and it was backwards compatible, youd have an excited base of paying customers eager to be part of sl2. Instead we all have to start completely over again, theowing out ten years of cash. Im sure some mba thinks its big money, like we have no choice but hand over our wallets. But we the customers arent going to leave what we have just to make ll happy. And if we lose everything when sl closes, then inworldz is much less expensive to start over within.

People are not going to leave what they have. Sansar will bomb as a different grid just as everyone else has, and for the exact same reason.

[JohnC]

imagine just how extremely difficult and undesirable
the transfer of inventories from one game to another is, when the content of those inventories is owned by thousands of different creators. why would anyone want the massive task of making sure all this content was compatible with up to date technology when it was developed in an out of date game engine. I have two or three long term avatars in SL, one which started in 2006, they all have massive inventory's of very expensive items. But I do not blame LL at all for not making it possible for me to transfer it all. As a loyal player gesture it would be fantastic, but in the real world it would end up being a long term legal and technical nightmare. I think even if Sansar was to be SL2 or anything like, it would make sense to wipoe the slate clean and start again.

[Rei]

I appreciate that you care Blueberry, but I cannot 'expect' you to care. I buy your stuff to enjoy in SL, (and I do), fully realizing it will all be obsolete at some future point.

It is really going to come down to how closely LL links SL and Sansar. If Sansar really feels like something new then I will not miss my stuff too much. (Nobody expects to bring their WoW assets to Overwatch do they?)

If Sansar feels like SL2 then I will want to bring my SL life there as painlessly as possible. For me, it would be really hard just toss out all my stuff and be 'Rei the refugee' in Sansar.

Probably bringing out Sansar before it is a complete platform is a good idea, as is being vague about some of the stuff. I am more likely to grit my teeth with a starter AV to look around and see how the new platform develops and see what I can contribute, than I would be to just stop SL one day and start Sansar the next.

"Wait and see" is my motto. Too many times I have watched developers snatch defeat from the jaws of victory....

[sirhc deSantis]

@rei or to misquote Steve Bell 'snatched a bloody victory from the jaws of a peaceful settlement'.

Wait and see it is as for all we know its going to be a set of unconnected 'experiences' rather than some navigable gestalt.

[Vivienne Daguerre]

Would you expect creators to give you a duplicate of your SL item in Hi Fidelity for nothing? No, Hi Fidelity is a different world. Sansar is a different world. I will make whatever changes I need to make (scripting, rigging, upload format, etc.) and bring in many of my creations made for SL. It will take extra work on my part to do so. I do not intend to give it away to replace SL inventory and I think it is unreasonable to expect creators to do so.

The truth is that if you have been in SL for a long time, you have trashed and replaced inventory items many times. Flexi prims made system clothing obsolete. Then along came sculpties, and everyone wanted sculpties and replaced their hair, clothing, furniture, etc. Then along came mesh and with it mad shopping to get the better stuff.

Given time, you would have to replace your inventory items anyway to keep up with the latest improvements. I don't see this as very different.

[JohnC]

That's the way it looks to me, and it may well succeed because of that. People who want to spend hard cash on creating a VR "experience" most likely won't want it populated by badly made naked idiots, cartoon characters and superheros, which is what you get when you allow people to dress as they please. If it has the same level of control as does SL then it will definitely fail in the big wide world beyond SL.

[Chic Aeon]

I am very much with Vivienne's sentiments. It is unreasonable to expect content creators to replace items that they have sold in SL.

First they would have to remake to new criteria (different file types, new rigging, different scripting -- possibly different texture rules -- the list goes on and on).

Then they would need to verify purchases and for some creators that could easily be thousands of customers.

I have moved mesh goods between platforms (Cloud Party and SL would be a good example -- and the other direction also). It is often possible, but it is NOT easy. It is boring and tedious with no creative element at all.

Some creators may decide to do "port" items over. Some may just redo their best sellers. Some may start over from scratch with just their skills and their ideas.

I have a few Blueberry clothes. They are lovely. I do NOT expect them to be replaced in a NEW platform.

Back in the very early days after the Sansar announcement, Ebbe did hint at the possibility of goods transfer from SL to the new world. And at that time, it might have been a goal. BUT, things change in the midst of creation. Projects take on a life of their own and sometimes what is planned cannot happen.

We were told at one point there would be starter plots of land. We were told that money would transfer and we were told (all officially now) that if we got over there lickety split, we could keep our dual names :D.

We don't KNOW how much of that will actually happen, and we won't for some months. Until then we can only be patient.

Inara Pey did a lengthy and seemingly complete summary last August. You can find it by going to the Sansar tab at the top of her home page. There, you can see ALL the differences. This really IS another platform, not another SL.

[Tuan Nguyen]

If no transferring inventory from Second Life to Sansar, at least convert like half Second Life inventory value and credit it to Sansar.

[Sc]

Am I the only one who isn't remotely interested in Sansar, for all it amounts to a salivating, rabid, Dictatorship without a single redeeming Democratic quality?

I don't give a flying fig if I never set foot in the place - the few pics I've seen of it just aren't appealing anyway.

Would rather either stick with SL, bugs and all - or move on entirely.