Revealed: Second Life Mainland Prim Increase Part of Linden Lab Push to Boost Premium Subscriptions

As it turns out, the mainland maximum prim increase mentioned yesterday is part of Linden Lab's new push to get longtime users to convert into monthly Premium subscribers:

New Perk! Prim Limit Increase: Premium members are entitled to a Linden Home and can own parcels on the Mainland. Now, we're raising the limit on the number of prims you can use in those spaces. This means you will have more prims and creative flexibility to decorate and customize your own space.  Land impact (object) capacity on Mainland Regions will go from 15,000 to 22,500 - that’s a lot more building capacity! In addition to this, we will further carry the prim limit increases to the private estate regions shortly.  Keep your eye on our blogs for more information!

Emphasis mine, because it looks like they're also pushing to make private estate ownership sweeter. Also, Premium users get a free robot avatar (as pictured) -- full list of bennies here. Taken together, I can kind of see the future of Second Life from a revenue standpoint:

Ideally, most longtime users paying a monthly subscription and/or owning a private estate. Probably the only way to keep the world going into perpetuity, while also making enough profit to subsidize risky projects like Sansar.

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Comments

[chryblnd]

Do they still suspend your account if your premium membership lapses? That was always the dealbreaker for me

[Pussycat Catnap]

Linden Lab just put out a video on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZr6VwBDlVg

[Christopher Strachan]

yes chryblnd they do and if you dont pay your tier on THEIR time.
Im now banned from SL because i was 1 month late on paying my $40 tier.

DOWN WITH SL!
OPENSIM FOR THE WIN!

[Han Held]

Oh for fuck's sake stop it with the pants-on-head idiotic opensim shilling!

By bringing up opensim when it has nothing to do with the conversation y'all are driving AWAY far more people than you draw in.

For hypergrid's sake PLEASE knock it off.

[Orca Flotta]

"Do they still suspend your account if your premium membership lapses? That was always the dealbreaker for me"

No, they don't anymore. Was obviously bad for business and a bad idea in general not to support a downgrade option.

"yes chryblnd they do and if you dont pay your tier on THEIR time.
Im now banned from SL because i was 1 month late on paying my $40 tier."

His question wasn't about you stupidly forgetting to pay your tier in time - for a whole fukn month!!! - but about letting his membership lapse. Two totally different things.

[Orca Flotta]

BTW ...

https://orcaflotta.wordpress.com/2016/11/04/didnt-we-know-it-2/

[Pussycat Catnap]

I gotta say the fact that every other blog article on Hamlet's blog gets trolled by Open Simmers does not make Open Sim look good...

Its a different product anyway. Second Life is a community, Open Sim is a personal sandbox you can let other people come look at. They may use the same technology but they're very different creatures. This is getting to be a bit like promoting the latest issue of Superman anytime somebody talks about paper manufacturing... sure they're both related to the same 'object type' - but the use-case is radically different.

[Han Held]

You could not be more wrong. Opensim is a community as well, actually. For the last two years I've organized a festival that showcases user-created builds and projects. And that's just one example; many independant grids are actually community run, and there are regular community events (eg "hypergrid safari" https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/106546614275441833437 )

Opensim has many of the same communities that SL has (with the notable exception of fashionistas), the difference is a matter of scale; there's no question that SL has more. All the same, there are old and established communities on the hypergrid.

"Trolled" is also unduly harsh -I know both of the people who post and both mean well and are most definitely NOT trolls (even if I usually end up locking horns with them in any serious discussion).

They may be misguided in their approaches, but their intentions are pure. They simply need to get a feel for the right "time and place"

A better analogy would be Coke and Generic Store Brand cola, btw. Both can serve the same purpose and for many folks it does.

[opensimmer]

Opensimmers enjoy things like a full region with 50,000 prims for $20 a month and no setup fee. It's FUN to build with all that space. Plus no linkset limits, easy NPCs, full region backups, etc. So yeah, they are exuberant sometimes.

SL looks kind of behind the times when you can have all that power in your own hands. Forgive them their kids-in-a-candy-store enthusiasms.

[opensimmer]

And there are lots of communities in opensim if you just look around a little.

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

Yeah, opensim has communities...of Furry Sandboxers.

All the "plusses" of opensim appeal to those Sandboxers (who aren't just Furries...some are robots or aliens) who just want to sit in a cheap sim all day and build vehicles to show off to other Furry/Alien/Robot Sandboxers with their own cheap sims.

And one of the reasons all those sandboxer types love opensim is the lack of fashionistas. We all know what SL is now, Barbie Dream House XTreem to a bunch of Gen-x soccer moms, grandmas and art-school-girls of Doom.

And all those people buy content, lots of it. That twee blonde filling her Dutchie house with Gacha'd tchotckes IS the reality modern SL, not somebody who wants to live an SL 2005 life in a sandbox.

And those guys...and they ARE almost all guys, resent that. They've resented it since 2006 at least, so they love opensim and they can't stop shilling it in their own autistic-spectrum-y way.

And yeah, there's a few roleplay communities who use opensim because of the cheap land, though the lack of content is a serious negative. If there's one thing SL has it is a metric ****ton of content for any need, which leads to a metric ****ton of actual users to interact with.

[Han Held]

I'm not sure where you're pulling that out of, but it doesn't match my experience at all. The crowd you're describing actually hangs out more in SL because they can form gangs (SLPD, JLU, etc) and bug other people.

Then again, I'm going by recent first-hand experience; not grudges dredged up from 2006. I'm in both worlds on a daily basis; if your diatribe is any indication, you haven't been out here since 2010 if not before. Stuff's changed since then, just like SL.

In my experience -based on my time in osgrd, hypergrid.org, 3rdrockgrid, running and participating on several events and operating several G+ communities; the opensim population tends to skew older and the rl gender split tends to be 50/50, maybe slightly skewed in favor of men but not by much. Don't worry, CCC ...we've got plenty of grandmas (RL grandmas) on the hypergrid as well.

One can get a feel for the activities which go on by lurking on the G+ communities, reading hypergrid business or actually starting up your own grid ( eg using Fred Beckhusen's "dreamworld" installer: https://plus.google.com/+FredBeckhusen/posts/Y9Kt95Y3Baz)

I should mention you can use that installer and get on the hypergrid for free (or the cost of a vps). Alternately you can simply join hypergrid.org and hop around.

Whatever you ...the reader... choose to do, you'd do wise to ignore CCC's outdated, venomous (and ableist ..."autistic" indeed) spew. Look into it yourself and make up your own mind. :)

[Dykoda Desmoulins]

I am not going to get into an 'Opensim vs. SL' debate, but there are a few things I would like to address.

I have been in Second Life since October 2005. I've watched it grow from a primitive virtual world into what it is today. I am a fashionista to an extent. I spend a LOT of time shopping. I find a lot of enjoyment, and spend a lot of time decorating my house, however, I tend to shop at various well-known stores, rather than Gatchas (though I've been known to do the latter occasionally). I absolutely LOVE Second Life because I can satisfy my desire for all of those things, and much more. SL offers me things that I simply can't get in Opensim.

I am a RL grandmother (of 6, actually). I love spending time in a sandbox building. I rent regions on several Opensim grids. I love to travel the Hypergrid, exploring what others create, what others have built. I love the fact that I'm not limited by various things in Opensim such as the linkset limits, etc.

I am not, nor have I ever been a "Furrie", or a robot, or an alien. In fact, aside from the mesh body (which I do have in a couple of Opensim grids...both open and closed), I look pretty much the same in Opensim as I do in SL. I do not spend all of my time in Opensim building, whether at a sandbox or on my own region. I go shopping, many of the stores I frequent as designers/creators from SL, most of which are still active in SL. I go to parties, dancing at clubs with live DJs, listen to live music. While I have chosen not to, I can travel via Hypergrid to other grids for the same things, even community meetings. I can find pretty much everything in Opensim that I enjoy in SL, just on a smaller scale.

It really is apples and oranges. As you can see, everything that has been mentioned in all the previous posts, whether you view it as a negative or a positive, are things that I take part in almost daily in both 'worlds'. I like to think of it as SL being my New York City, and Opensim is my slower paced, smaller city. It's peaceful, unrushed, friendlier, etc. Each has their offerings and I, like many, many others, enjoy both. I am a daily 'traveler' of SL, as well as Opensim and I hope that never changes.

[dahlia]

Some people who use OpenSimulator do seem to enjoy their particular brand of roleplay. Others of us who have been writing code most of our lives view it (and other open source projects) as a medium of free expression.

[frodostodo]

Opensim is what you make it. That's the point of having a totally free metaverse. Free as in freedom to make your own virtual worlds - as many as you want - for free as in money - and you can back them up and store them like any other file. What other platform is offering that?

You can have accounts in SL AND Opensim. Lots of people do.

[metacam oh]

how about SL starts allowing me to host my own sim with my own resources for as many prims as I can handle with a premium membership, that's about the only way I'd come back to SL

[Chic Aeon]

ANDDDDDD we now return to the original post?

For the next three months or so -- according to Patch Linden in the announcement video -- mainland folks (Chic waves hands wildly) will have 50% more prims to spend, for me thats about 1800 that I didn't count on before I saw that number change on my land impact chart (my rental land was one of the first converted).

For a-while mainland will kinda be on par (definitely apples and oranges I agree) with private land. Private will still have higher avatar ceilings, estate abilites versus mainland with more prims. They will also have clear skys but won't have vast areas of contiguous lands (again that apples and oranges thing).

This is good for mainlanders, merchants and The Lab which depends in part on mainlanders and merchants. I can surmise from my jump in surround sales yesterday that some folks are planning on making new areas up in the atmosphere and using their extra prims there. This is more money for merchants and more money in some cases for The Lab from Marketplace fees.

I haven't used many of my new prims yet, but I did change a few things in my business model. I updated two products (a plan that had been on the books but not implemented) that I felt could benefit from higher LOD settings. I also made a mesh version of an old and still very salable (insert cringe here) sculpt item. I didn't REPLACE the older items, I just gave customers a choice. There is no reason to put a 130 land impact house inside a skybox when a 87 land impact one will look just the same. But SOME folks will opt for the long distance viewing models.

Patch Linden inserted the idea that part of the reason for the land impact bonus was so that content creators would make higher (better LODs) land impact models so that those with lower LOD settings could see the world in a prettier manner. Honestly, I don't think that will happen readily, but I made my three updates and now feel virtuous.

In a few months (three was mentioned in the video but not etched in stone), private lands will get their increase and perhaps the ability to have DOUBLE the current "primmage" for a very small tier increase. That will put Private lands back in the lead land war wise IMHO.

Meanwhile parts of the economy seem to be getting a boost and that's just fine with me.

[Noxluna]

Hi! First let's address the issue of metric "****" ton of content. While I would agree that SL has considerably more stores than OS, I would disagree with anyone saying there's a greater variety because of that.The vast majority of those "retail" stores are selling the EXACT same mesh outfits that the store next door is selling...because everyone uses the same full perm creators. Now, some of those full perm creators are kind enough to allow export to other grids, so guess what! Now opensim is getting a metric "****" ton of content, tho granted its muchly the same as what you find in SL, tho perhaps for some people that is what they want...the same old things. Which brings me to my 2nd point: One of the great things about opensim, to my mind, is that it sort of forces a bit of creativity, imagination and learning. This is not as true now as it once was, as more and more SL creators of one sort or another discover the joys of opensim and lower prices, and greater freedoms. Saying that, I too once was an sl fangirl. My very first experience with virtual or even gaming was discovering SL back in 2007. So, as a person whom has been and still is in both SL and opensim I can say that I at least am openminded, when it comes to opportunities outside SL. PS I'm absolutely NOT a furry (tho i have friends who are, so let's not bash peeps for being what they can be, that is what virtual is about). Third and final point: opensim (specifically Digiworldz) allows me the luxury of owning, I think i'm up to 21, lots of regions...many of those that i have set up for peeps to come and use for free as a home base. I can afford to do that, because I'm not paying an unnecessarily exorbitant fee.

[Butch Arnold]

To be fair here, Second Life has their fans, and opensim has their fans.
It's like arguing which is better... coke or pepsi?
Ford or Chevy?
Football or Basketball?

It's an opinion.
Everyone has his/her own right to that opinion and as such I respect each viewpoint on the topic.

With that being said, one can only point out the advantages and disadvantages of each platform in a fair comparison.

Region Sizes, prims counts...
OpenSim can have far larger land mass sizes and far more prim capacity than an SL region.. advantage OpenSim.

Prices...
No Setup in Opensim, Regions prices on my grid as low as $2.50/mo for a low prim region with no restrictions other than prim counts... they are only 1000.
Advantage.. OpenSim.

Freedom...
In OpenSim, you are free to setup your home on one grid.. and you are free to visit the more than 300 other HyperGrid enabled worlds... shop, attend events, etc.. In SL.. you are limited to only the regions found inside the Second Life Platform... advantage OpenSim.

Area to explore....
Collectively, the OpenSim worlds now have far more landmass to visit and explore than Second Life has.... Advantage OpenSim...

Prim Sizes..
In SL the largest prim you can create is limited to what..? 64m?
In OpenSim grids you can create and use far larger prims.

Content ownership...
Who claims ownership to all of the content inside SL? I believe the answer here is.. Linden Labs.
Inside DigiWorldz, you retain all claims of ownership to anything you upload and or create inside our world... we'll never claim ownership.

Upload fees....
Inside SL.. you are always charged a fee to upload your textures, mesh items and other files.. you are also charged to create groups and classified ads... inside DigiWorldz you are not charged.. all uploads are free.. group and classified creation is also free.

To own land inside SL you have to have a "Premium account" which is an extra charge above the setup fee and monthly charges to keep your region... in DigiWorldz there is no such thing as a premium account.. all user accounts are free.. if you choose to own land, you simply pay the monthly fee to keep it.

In SL it's very hard, if not illegal to take your content out of SL.. in DigiWorldz you can have a backup of your region or inventory upon requests.. if you choose to take it to another grid then that is your right.

Support....
If something goes wrong.. how soon does SL react to your request for help? How long does it take to get fixed?
In DigiWorldz, we often respond within minutes and most support tickets are resolved within an hour.. you can see what our users say about our support here:
http://digiworldz.com/feedbackcomments.php

Need something custom in SL from LL? Will they do it for you?
At DigiWorldz, we often entertain requests from our users for new features.. I just did one the other day for a user.. I create a special API function so they could grab a bit of info for a script they were writing.. when was the last time you seen SL do that?

DigiWorldz has a 7 day money back guarantee.. if, for any reason you aren't happy.. let us know and we'll gladly fix it or discontinue services and refund 100% of your payment... What is SL's policy regarding refunds/guarantees?

Misconceptions...
I can't speak for the more than 300 other virtual worlds, but inside DigiWorldz a furry avatar is in a minority group. People are free to use them if they like and some do, but we don't see too many of them.

Women cannot be found in OpenSim... terrible misconception.. I hope each woman in opensim reads this article and posts a comment.. it may overload the servers. There are lots of woman inside OpenSim.

SL does though, have far more people online than any opensim based grid... for now.

Long term....???
What's going to happen to SL after the release of sansar?? Will there even be an SL in 5 years?
OpenSim will still be around.. and we'll still be holding the door for all of the SL refugees.

What about all of the money spent by users of the SL platform.. what will become of all of the content they've created if/when SL closes after the release of sansar? Do you think they'll finally let you have it all then? I doubt it.. even if they did.. what would you do with it then.. bring it to OpenSim.. or simply send it to your trash bin?

SL users are proud of the platform they support, and so are opensim users.
If/when the ship sinks over at LL.. we'll still throw you a life preserver.. no worries.. we have your back :)

[JohnC]

"Oh for fuck's sake stop it with the pants-on-head idiotic opensim shilling!"
I hope you don't mind me quoting you Han, but I couldn't think of a better way to comment upon the thinly veiled advert above by someone who should know better being self aggrandizing grid owner. This would put me right off wanting anything to do with such a person.

[JohnC]

Well excuse me, seems that all that is wrong with this post is that it is in the wrong place. It should be moved to "Friday Open Forum: Post Your Virtual Links Here" However, to talk about OS like it is on some kind of high is just plain daft. It is a niche of a niche, which is fine if you just want to disappear into your own virtual space. All these little grid barons are simply trying to be what LL are in SL, they are prety much the equivalent of land barons in SL. they are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Just take the hypergrid route and look around. you will seriously find it hard to spot anyone anywhere. Of course friends meet and say, well there were a bunch of us having a party the other day that is only meaningful in a private sense. All of this I say with great sadness. It could be a great place. A grid owner might be able to sort out your every day issues, but ask them when some new feature will be implemented and you will realize, like all of OS, they are slaves to the ever decreasing randomly inspired development team. Unless of course you more or less leave OS behind and do your own thing entirely like Inworldz or Moses.

[SkinTrader Greyskin]

CronoCloud, Pusstcat , JohnC .. Very much summed it up for me.

People who have rooted for 2ndlife's destruction for years are getting kinda scared.
LL making improvements, turning the place into what the users want, that isn't something the bottom feeders want to see happen.

we will see more improvements to come, it means less people leaving 2ndlife starving them of new people, cutting them off the parasitic food supply.

[SkinTrader Greyskin]

at Butch Arnold,

Cool story Bro!!

[Han Held]

@JohnC, context is key.
If you're unable (more likely unwilling) to distinguish between posting about opensim out of the blue versus posting to respond to a post full of bogus, venomous claims ...there's nothing I can do.

The fact you're unwilling to make that distinction (and actually wish to blur that distinction) does not mean that it isn't there.

[Han Held]

As far as Butch, Noxluna, etc go; I think that their perspective balances out CCC's baseless vitriol quite nicely, to tell the truth.

Yes, the argument can be made that would have fit better in the Friday roundup (maybe next week they'll post there). But they're also appropriate here as a response to the FUD posted in the comments to this article.

[Vbinnia]

I started in SL in Feb 2008 end enjoyed it. up until the holier than thou brigade tried to make it whiter then white and SL made so many nonsensical business decisions that ultimately hit my pocket, plus a lot of bad personal experiences, that I decided to leave early 2011.

Faced with the choice of leaving virtual altogether or trying Opensim as a complete noob, that's where I went. First to a commercial grid, which I had no complaints about, then running my own personal server because that is the ultimate form of freedom, where I'm answerable to no one but myself if things go wrong. So I think I speak with some experience behind me.

There is lot wrong with Opensim, I would be the first to admit it, I could give a long list; but, the somewhat vociferous points made by ChronoCloud Creegan are only half truths. Quite why they (no idea if they are he or she and don't really care) chose to insult just about everyone including the fashionistas of SL, except maybe anyone that fits their restricted view of how the world should be, let alone use 'Sandbox' as a derogatory term leaves me a bit mystified. SL would not exist without being trialled in a sandbox box, and an awful lot of SL creators use sandboxes, many located in Opensim, to save money, so they are pretty useful things. The main thrust of their argument seem to be the only thing that matters is the ability to make money, which can always be a mistake if taken too literally. Quote: "And all those people buy content, lots of it. That twee blonde filling her Dutchie house with Gacha'd tchotckes IS the reality modern SL."

In SL that may well be the reality and aim but only for a select few that can rake in enough dosh, but that will never be as much as SL makes from them. This also shows a complete missing of a point that there are people in both SL and Opensim that are there for enjoyment not just to make money or spend it on,'things'. Most of us have no objection to spending money unless it stops us doing the things we like to do. SL has great propensity for going down that road. It's a business, ultimately every user, land baron, creator or $L millionair pays LL in the end, and handsomely.

I guess I tick most of the boxes CCC refers to which fills them with such distain, and to boot I am not a fashionista, and Ye Gods! happen to be wearing a robot mesh I'm making animations for. Triple Whammy there then! I must be the foul smelling mud on CCC's carefully crafted expensive mesh shoes and doomed to Hell and damnation... LOL. I'm not Autistic though and don't spend all my time in a sandbox, does that count as a get out of jail card? I may spend an inordinate amount of time in Blender though. Don't bother, I'll set fire to myself and jump back into the pit where I belong. :)

I should feel insulted shouldn't I, I really should, and maybe even run around in circles shouting "Wibble!" But I don't, I know my place in the world and I'm comfortable with it. :) I can only hope calmer minds bother to look a little deeper at Opensim, into what it is, what it is not, and who uses it.

Opensim and SL as platforms are different animals that only appear to be the same on the surface. Although I understand full well why, I personally have always thought it was mistake to rigidly try to be compatible with SL, you are seeing here the result that those misconceptions can create.

The 'Opensim server', this is what you actually mean when you say Opensim, is also an open source project; the SL server most certainly is Not! it's software developed by a commercial business with feeding share holders as the bottom line. Don't for one minute think it's run for the benefit of the residents/users, they are just irritants.

I'm a great fan of open source software because it has given me the opportunity to do things that other wise I would be unable to do because I am not rich; and also for ethical reasons. I'm also aware of the difference between commercially developed software, open source and the advantages and disadvantages of either. I've heard all the same arguments aimed at Linux users (I happen to be one) by the users of the other well known proprietary OS systems. But Linux is still here in better health than ever and far more widely used than almost everyone realises (smartphones anyone?) and just gets better. In the same way that there is no way that anyone can track the use of Linux as it's free to download and give away, Opensim's downloads and unlisted instances, all those sims on sick or instances run on a PC with no connection to the internet, or small closed networks, all form their own equivalent of the dark web, no one has any idea of it's size or number.

Nothing in this world is perfect, Opensim is no exception, from the commercial grid operators to individuals running a standalone region on their PC to people like myself serving regions attached to the OSgrid test grid. Things go wrong, things don't work and things can drive me mad, but! and it a big BUT! none of it compares to the things that had the same effect on me in SL, as I was paying handsomely for the privilege of using a half baked ill thought out system that has never been sorted out to this day. It's like an old car that has had various bits bolted on to stop other bits falling off of or to just keep the driver from complaining too much until it's such a hack job it will eventually fail under it's own weight.

Why does anyone think Project Sansar exists? Because the limits of what can be done with SL to fix past mistakes are probably long past and a law of diminishing returns attempting to do so is coming into play with every new, "Ooo.. look its great!" bit that's stuck on having a potential to make something else fail. Serious place to be for a business running SL, but of no consequence to Opensim software development as it's not a business and can can continue, fork, take new directions, even if SL folds tomorrow. My server will still run even if every commercial Opensim server shut down and development stopped; and the same for every one else that has a copy. It's highly unlikely that Opensim would vanish over night whatever happends. If LL decided to close down it's servers it WOULD! vanish over night and with all your expensive purchases to boot.

What I did find in Opensim initially was, yes, a lack of content, and also where my burning resentment of LL's policy of owning and keeping locked up anything I bought in SL originated from. But that was in 2011 before hypergid and things becoming more organised and reliable. The result was me having to make a choice at that time, learn or leave! I chose learn. I also had a friend that couldn't cope and went back to buying in SL.

I found there is a certain kind of person that likes Opensim and they tend to be very helpful to others, this is not unique to Opensim but I felt at home, more than I ever did in SL. The shopaholics with money to burn will always gravitate to the commercial that panders to their wants, this is also slowly evolving with commercial grids running Opensim and the advent of Kitely Market proving things can be sold successfully in Opensim, things have changed a lot in the last year. I also come across enough people in Opensim to know that that buyers outnumber the creators and that not all creators can make everything, so have no objection to buying things they want. The big difference between Opensim and SL in that respect, is the more buyers have some knowledge of building or are willing to learn, as being here requires some basic abilities to get the most out of it.

Another plus that became evident, was having had no bother what so ever with the ever present griefers, idiots, insults and threats that I encountered during my time in SL. Opensim is not fertile ground for those. I met one idiot since I have been in Opensim and I put that down to just noob ignorance nothing will full.

Something lost on almost everyone that comes from SL is that if you want something, that includes people, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't available or doesn't exist; you have to look for it, and that means looking on many different grids or asking someone. There is some cracking content available in Opensim that can match anything available in SL; and social events to match if you care to spend time looking, which can be half the fun. The only obstacle can be time zones.

A point not appreciated unless you have the ability, is to to save your entire region and inventory to your hard drive, (permissions allowing). Something SL definitely would not allow. In general what's yours in Opensim stays yours. Moving home to an entirely different grid, just like real life, is quite feasible, without your old landlord insisting that your entire wardrobe belongs to them not you.

As for no one being in Opensim, I wish I had penny for every hour spent hopping around SL's humongous map and landing in empty space; pretty, but empty. Today it's seems to be even more easy to visit endless malls packed to the gills with the same products, but devoid of a single avatar. I've always wondered and still do, how accurate SL's quoted population actually is, it seems to be very elusive most of the time?

I have no objection to anyone wanting to spend their time in SL, burn money, or try to extract it, that's their choice, as is mine and lot of other people's choice to stay in Opensim because we want to, and enjoy it (for all it's faults) in whatever way we choose be it fashionista, socialite, or shapeless blob building in sandbox or tinkering with the server software, or setting up a commercial grid. I stay because being here gives a sense that things are contentiously moving forward and improving, sometimes in fits and starts, but forward. That is not a sense I get with SL which still seems to be just bolting extra bits on and hoping people are blinded by the superficial glossiness of it's adverts, which long ago lost any attempt to reflect reality, all with the ever present shadow of Sansar hovering and a slowly falling population.

As for Furries and what-not in Opensim, out of a great many visitors, my counter stopped working after a thousand shortly after I started it three years ago, no idea how many in total; I have had one charming little My Little Pony visitor, one attractive naked lady, and one robot who helped me with a script problem, in five years that's not exactly a flood of wierdo's by anyone's definition is it? I have never objected to how anyone chooses to look and you will get the sharp end of my tongue if you try to judge me; that's their choice and mine. What gives me the right to judge or poor scorn on others anyway?

There are are without doubt many things I don't like about Opensim that will never be changed as far as I can tell, mainly because it is so closely wedded to the idea of SL compatibility; but I can see no credible alternative especially considering all the the freedoms Opensim comes with. So for now I work with and enjoy what I have and the people I meet until something better appears.

[Poptart Lilliehook]

Mr. Hanheld talking bad about CronoCloud/others while sending in more autistic-spectrum trolls to attack them just proves the facts they stated.
secondlife is for those who want the BEST, who know what winning is all about with all it's rewards and glam.
longtime customer pointed out this dribble, the desperate slums revolting now that secondlife is turning around, they have no place to ...BEG. secondlife is an upscale world, no one wants to live in the ghetto!.

........................
So this happened
[nwn.blogs]
I don't think I need to tell any of you what an unfair characterization that is of the modern hypergrid.

I think it would be a Good Thing if folks went over and corrected that bad attitude with your own experiences.

If you comment, be mindful to be respectful (do as I say, not as I do ;)) in order to avoid playing into any one of the numerous caricatures they have of opensim "fans".

Be aware that Chrono is a long-time fashion person (and if I remember right from prok's blog; critique of open source); you're not dealing with some noob there.""'

Opensim Virtual
https: //plus.google .com/communities/116284417302234467612
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[Vbinnia]

Oh dear Poptart, I do wonder why you have to resort to insults and derogatory remarks to make your point? Calm down, do a few Hommm's and make some rational well thought out arguments to back up your case. Maybe even crack a smile and inject a little humour occasionally. More people will be inclined to take you seriously if you do. And come.. on..! Manup and do some serious insulting if you really must, not his whimpy floppy scattergun stuff. If Trump can do it anyone can! All together now, build a wall between SL and Opensim, send the scum back where they belong, border controls for non SL residents. Opensim ate my granny, my kids, and my dog. Oh WTF! shoot the bastards!

So far you are just regurgitating all the same words in a different order that CCC wrote. AND aimed them at a lot people I seriously doubt you know, in a world you probably have no experience of.

I doubt anyone is saying SL is not the bee's knees of this type of virtual world. It's a fact. It has been about for long enough and has had a great deal of money spent on it's development; so it should be!

But being the best doesn't mean forever, technology fashions and interests change rapidly, and can fall from favour for many reasons. Like many others, scratch SL's surface and there are cracks, not enough to worry or concern the likes of yourself in the here and now, but they should if only to be aware of what the future may bring. Don't take my word for it, read the SL bug reports and see how many have existed since it's inception that can't be fixed because they would break all the existing patches that have been applied to get round the original problems and would break a vast amount of existing content if they tried.

I said it before, I doesn't take a genius to work out that was why Project Sansar was set up. SL's technology has reached the point there is not much more that can be done with it except tinker and squeeze the last bit of profitability out of it.

My interest is teaching myself about avatars and animation. Having to deal with the SL, I have no choice Opensims avatar and skeleton is SL's avatar, be it mesh or Ruth, has been both an eye opener and rude awakening. Having been exposed to proper animation with well designed armatures and rigs. SL's is a quite frankly a mess. It's difficult to see how it can be improved. Bento's extra bones are just a sticking plaster; an attempt to get a bit more functionality and placate the braying masses without breaking too much. The real solution is to start over again from scratch and do the job properly from the word go, but that is impossible with the state the SL server and viewers are in at present. Attempting to do so would trash everything you know and expect from avatars in SL and Opensim.

Enter stage right, Sansar!

This is just one aspect of SL that is never likely to progress beyond what exists now, and sadly also Opensim. There are many more. If Sansar does finally work out, a lot of SL's functionality will just be stepped over for a more modern platform that will do a lot more more efficiently, and probably not be worth making compatible with what exists in SL which is more trouble than it's worth.

Whilst you are at it also look back through LL's history and see how it has treated it's residents. Not uplifting reading at times, and I have no reason to suppose it's suddenly going come over all lovey dovey if the profit margin shrinks.

What happens to SL matters to everyone in Opensim. That is a fact that no one can get away from. The code base of the server is based on SL's server just more flexible and adaptable. But the viewers we use are all SL developed and focused viewers that sometimes don't play well with Opensim. When people like yourself regard us all as scum and a trivial minority, that is not surprising, but we do see regular improvements come through. Not everyone has your attitude and some developers do care about Opensim. But, if SL folded and viewer development ceased that is big problem for Opensim. Fortunately due to the nature of open source software, moves are afoot that may be able to remedy the situation and may even gives us a better viewer in the end than the ones that exist now; which if you care or bother to find out more about, are creaking at the seams and not fit for purpose, in SL or or Opensim.

If a truly independent viewer ever does emerge and become viable (the signs look good), that will be a game changer. It may even put SL on the back foot as Opensim will suddenly have an enormous reach with performance to match. The bulk of all processing in SL and Opensim is done by the viewer with that being the main limiter of performance.

I will now repeat, as you seem to think everyone in Opensim, is; I am not autistic, and not met anyone else that is; if I did I would not insult them. I'm focused yes; what I do I want to do well, no different from a fashionista wanting to dress well, except the only way I can achieve my aim is do it myself I can't buy knowledge and experience, it would be no different if I was in SL, except for costing me a fortune in uploads. I am not a Troll, I rarely comment unless I have something worth saying. Is what I write dribble? I'll leave that to others to decide, actually the word you should have used is drivel not dribble, its difficult to speak drivel when you dribble :) Slums revolting, interesting thought, although I don't live in one in real life or in virtual, 16 regions with no boundaries is more like urban sprawl, and on two continents if you count my backup server and, OH MY GOD! Sandbox! There.. I said the dreaded word. Now I await the 4 am riot squat battering ram and rubber truncheons to be dragged off to a Gulag to have electrodes applied to nipples..... . erm.. no .. don't go with that last bit... Just watch the next post it will be calling everyone in Opensim sexed up pervert queers. Hehe! Beg! who is begging? I've not met anyone in Opensim begging for anything, we don't need to??? But I have met an awful lot of avatars begging for Lindens in SL. Oh the stories I could tell :)

[Mandragora Avonside]

@Vbinnia "tl;dr" "DunnoCare"
PLAIN AND SIMPLE-->Hijacking a thread about SL to promote another agenda just shows the world the type of people you are!!