« Top Five New World Notes Posts from Last Week! | Main | Leonard Cohen Cosplay: Awesome SL Tribute to Late Artist »

Monday, November 14, 2016

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

The Walking Bread

space might be the first platform since cloud party that is worth rallying around.
Most residents are tired of the current company that manages SL.

Sansar & Hi Fidelity both are not providing residents what they have been looking for.
Opensim was never a good alternative for Second Life residents who are just in it for the social fun while content creators just never was able to make the kind of money to invest the time in this small worlds.

Space seems to fill the need for both a creator & consumer standpoint and if it does not gain enough popularity then that might be disappointing it has so much potential.

The Walking Bread

space might be the first platform since cloud party that is worth rallying around.
Most residents are tired of the current company that manages SL.

Sansar & Hi Fidelity both are not providing residents what they have been looking for.
Opensim was never a good alternative for Second Life residents who are just in it for the social fun while content creators just never was able to make the kind of money to invest the time in this small worlds.

Space seems to fill the need for both a creator & consumer standpoint and if it does not gain enough popularity then that might be disappointing it has so much potential.

Chic Aeon

I definitely wish the platform well and hope they thrive, but I don't see a lot of crossover from SL or OS. I doubt very many content creators are wanting to learn a whole new skillset in order to support a fledgling world.

There are two sides to the content creator issue. Platforms can't survive with out some decent content. Opensim is a bit of a counter indicator to that statement. Lots of free content (kudos), homemade stuff that is not always great but most often fun (kudos and gold stars) and lots of stolen stuff and free mesh -- often HORRIBLY made mesh for game engines -- mesh from download sites.

In the corporeal world, folks want "their stuff". The will do most anything to have and keep "their stuff". That translates over into virtual land. And when there is no stuff to want or lust over or BUY? A lot of folks leave the building.

Content creators have issues too. Stay with a system you know, that works -- in whatever manner you consider "works" to befor you -- or tread onto totally new ground. Even if costs are minimal or non-existent, there is LAAAABOOOOR involved.

It is sometimes difficult to justify the time spent on a platform that has little hope of returning nominal riches. Some of us do it for fun, or practice, or "play"; but there are a whole group of designers trying to put the kids through college or even pay the rent. They don't have the luxury of frivolous dips into creative pools that will not return a useful real world value.

And while this is slightly off topic (but mentioned in the OP) I was a big boggle-eyed to see the Golden Gate Bridge from TURBOSQUID being shown off in the latest Sansar video.

Granted SOMEONE created that model LOL, but not anyone over there in the 'creator preview' group I am guessing. The whole thing that MADE Second Life (and keeps it going) is the creativity of the citizenship. Even back in the texture shoes days, hard working designers were figuring ways AROUND the SL issues. That is still going on, but now there are plenty of things that also work smoothly. A plus for sure.

PS. I LOOOOOOOVED Cloud Party! Best tech ever.

Jimmy Brink

Chic wrote:
"There are two sides to the content creator issue. Platforms can't survive with out some decent content. Opensim is a bit of a counter indicator to that statement. Lots of free content (kudos), homemade stuff that is not always great but most often fun (kudos and gold stars) and lots of stolen stuff and free mesh -- often HORRIBLY made mesh for game engines -- mesh from download sites."

Lots of those so called freebies are copybotted things from creators long off the SL grid too. + entire regions of stolen well known stuff hidden for only friends to see exsisit in many grids.

Chic wrote:
"It is sometimes difficult to justify the time spent on a platform that has little hope of returning nominal riches.""I doubt very many content creators are wanting to learn a whole new skillset in order to support a fledgling world."

Sansar or High Fidelity is not a nitch?
do you really think space is harder to build in then Sansar or High Fidelity?
And creators are not already going to have to learn new skill sets for sansar and high fidelity correct?
You think the golden standard Unity has no ability to empower creators?

Lapiscean Liberty

I have friends there just like I have friends in other Virtual Worlds, and I promote my friends. This past week one of my post was removed from a G+ group because it was about Space and not Opensimulator per say. I also have friends in Unity that have been there a long time, and from what they tell me, pound for pound, the same content you built in SL or Opensim, sells for more in Unity.
I wish the platform well.

JohnC

Space being built around Unity is a definite big plus. The Unity asset store is massive, anyone making content for Space would almost certainly be able to sell that content in the Asset store as well.
I am not sure that many SL users fully understand the situation with Sansar. It still seems to be thought of as some kind of successor to SL. Sansar will have no content at all unless LL can attract SL content creators there to make it for them. The same goes for Hi Fidelity. They are just bare platforms that ultimately rely upon A VR Headset for optimal use.
You will also need to know C# if you want to script anything original in Sansar.
If you are tired of LL and the way they run SL. The over pricing and the terrible customer service that has been going on for years. And if you are looking for an alternative place that is very similar and is run by people who totally understand SL and OS because they are ex users like you, then Space is by far your best option. Even more so if you are someone who is in SL just for fun and to meet friends and hold events etc. Space is not just what you see now, it is growing all the time, and the developers are at that great stage when they are open to suggestions from users. I really hope it takes off, it just feels fresh and not weighted down by the legacy of SL and LL which unfortunately even Hi Fidelity still has to carry.

Dirran Skytower

Linden Labs has a monopoly. They charge monopoly prices. They underestimate the level of disaffection and disenchantment that years of price gouging and unresponsive management has created.

The thing is that monopolists are always astonished when 'their' customers go elsewhere. Sort of like Marie-Antoinette's suggestion for solving the bread crisis in Paris...

Skye Emerald

@ Liberty
friend of mine got in big trouble on the Kitely forum for mentioning space in a conversation,heck,not only did the post get deleted with her posting privaledges restrickted, but,they went even further threating to close her small Kitely store.
bigger grids from Kitely,GCG,Iwz,Digiworldz,even Metropolis have made it clear folks promotoing space are finding a fast ticket to the banhammer.

JohnC

Well I guess it is OS that has the most to lose from SL like competition, which is a shame, because OS users have already shown that they are open to change far more than many SL users. It is also understandable that you wouldn't want people promoting your completion in your world.

Cindy Bolero

Again, I am going to emphasize, that Space does what SL & OS could NOT do for the many service providers that attempted to do business with education, corporate, government, industry, research, manufacturers, etc.

Remember when thousands of media developers and other companies became "SL Service Providers" 7-10 years ago? Many of us really thought that this was the new way many would be learning and working on the Web. Remember when large corporations, big car companies, fashion labels, and government agencies like NASA had a large presence in Secondlife?

We know the many reasons why they didn't stay, and we know why OpenSim couldn't serve much better. Big business and small developer companies also built VW-like platforms for B2B, education, entertainment, etc. Besides being overpriced, I had not found one that served its customers well.

Space is the place! If you are a service provider or Web developer/designer wanting to go to the next level and evolve with the internet, its happening now. Immersive 3D websites are coming online every day as the backend of the internet is getting a makeover by worldwide engineers. Secondlife showed us the possibilities, but its taken this long for the internet and software to catch up and serve that potential.

If media production or Web development is your occupation or business, whether you create 3D content or design and deploy web portals or product marketing campaigns, there is something for everybody, as the 3D Web is rolling out to mainstream. I suggest resisting the urge to compare Space to what you’ve already experienced, and think outside The Grid.

Cindy Bolero

Oh I and I forgot to mention entertainment industry and the 3D Web. With Space's questing and available AI systems, you could create interactive story lines for users to be part of your book, movie, or game. Live music performers will be able use facial tracking while singing. Someday soon, musicians can be live motion-captured so when that guitarist falls to his knees during that solo, you will see the heart and soul that goes into it.

Entertainment companies and promoters can have elegant offices, meeting rooms, and studios in 3D, while their home office or studio is either a messy family house or cluttered garage. Yeah we can already do that in VWs, but Space's interface (viewer) is much less confusing and complex for new users. And then there's that nifty feature it plays on a webpage and mobile.

Christopher Strachan

hi Skye Emerald, i'm a digiworldz resident and know for a fact that people don't get banned for talking about other grids or virtual worlds. We have talked about HiFi before with no issues.
The admins do however ask not to advertise other grids in our community chat but chatting in local or other groups about other grids, hifi or this new space world will not get anyone banned. The only thing that would happen is a resident gets ejected from the community chat group if they advertise for other grids and/or virtual world games such as HiFi and space.

Han Held

I don't buy that Hypergrid.org is censoring mentions of Space, I want to see some proof of that before I believe it. They've got nothing to gain from that at all. Long story short -I think that claim is bullshit.

I'm one of the owners of the "Opensim Everything" G+ group and if anyone wants to post about Space in it, they're very welcome to do so.

Han Held

@Lapiscean Liberty:

I got kicked out of Opensim Virtual for being "insuffiently loyal" to opensim (roll eyes) and for saying that folks could post about Space in my group.

To be blunt, that's a problem with opensim virtual and the folks there who demand an unconditional loyalty oath.

Sadly there's been too much of a divisive, authoritarian "you're with us or against us" mindset that has taken root in the opensim community and that is itself bullshit.

I'm hoping that by offering a counter to that environment, we can draw the folks to us who don't divide things into sides and in the end have a stronger metaverse community.

Christopher Strachan

/cheers @ han

i to am getting sick of the loyalty bs going on in opensim. That's one of the many reasons why i'm staying in digiworldz right now.

JohnC

It always seems strange to me that companies that create virtual world platforms never seem to create actual virtual worlds. To me it is as if in real life you were to go to an estate agent to buy a house and you find just pictures of plots of land with a stack of bricks and some sacks of mortar standing in the middle of them. Even if the whole idea is that this virtual space is to become a place for people to express their own creativity, there must surly be some kind of show homes to demonstrate all the possibilities. And these show homes must be spectacular. LL never did this with SL, so even now people outside the walled garden still think that it is incapable of great looking graphics. I mean what is a virtual world if it is not a visual experience, it may as well be a text chat room. Same goes for Avatars. If you look at a few Youtube videos of cutting edge Avatars in up and coming games they are beautiful works of art and the comments will be full of drooling players longing to become these characters. But what do we find when it comes to Virtual world companies, the avatars are always what looks like bad after thoughts. SL has some decent looking mesh avatars now, after 10 years! but all people wanted ever was a decent base character male and female mesh to work with, and a good AO. I know that people go to virtual worlds ultimately for the social experience, community etc. But if you want to attract juicy kids to put in your stew, you first need a spectacular gingerbread house, ask any half decent hungry witch. Then once you get them in the house you have to keep them entertained. The gingerbread house effect only lasts a very short while. So your amazing drool inducing virtual space, has to immediately contain something to entertain your new visitors. Ideally this is other visitors or at the very least, greeters, even if you have to pay them. There is nothing in the world that looks worse to a new user than empty virtual space, even if it looks spectacular. All virtual worlds suffer from the ghost town effect. Then you must entertain your visitors. You have to give them something that they are going to want to return for more of, good conversation, friendship, Sex, Violence, money, challenge, or combinations of these are what all standard games consist of. They just have to be there right from the start. You should also not forget that your audience are adults. The attitude that, all this will come in time when the user base and community is there, is a dodgy game to play, chances are your world will die before this happens or sink into niche mediocrity.
For me Space suffers from a lack of the majority of the above right now, the developers have done a fantastic job to get it this far, but at the moment it seemed like a pile of Bricks and Mortar looking for the builders. Hi fidelity and Sansar look pretty much the same, but they have a huge Gingerbread house effect courtesy of the VR headset wow effect.

Amanda

Can we discuss an article here without the evangelist from opensim coming in high jacking the the conversation.

Yes, my finger is pointing at you!..Mr.Han Held!

SkyLifeGrid

Hey Amanda, HUSH!!!

SkyLifeGrid

space isn't going anyplace, I'll damn near make sure of it, that's a promise. many of us have put to much blood,sweat & tears into OS to have some shell game company smokescreen our new customers from SL.

JohnC

Sounds like the desperate squeak of a flea on the back of a dying dog who's master has just bought a new puppy.

Han Held

Actually, space has a LOT of potential and I'd encourage anyone that loves SL or Opensim to go check it out. No charge to try, and you get your own space too!

@Amanda, what's that -you want me to post more about opensim? Can do! =D

Coraline Drax

@Han Held, being a long time reader myself,feeling the same as others, please stop diverting the conversation regarding the article.rude,attacking others is not helping the agenda your trying to push in hamlets blog.


Better then Ezra

Hand Held Stated: Sadly there's been too much of a divisive, authoritarian "you're with us or against us" mindset that has taken root in the opensim community and that is itself bullshit.

Article were you trolled Dr.Douglas Maxwell of the Project MOSES platform for forking from vanilla Os

Douglas Maxwell to Han Held 1 month ago:
I believe my response to your Hypergrid question was fairly straightforward. I'd be happy to answer any more questions you may have. I only ask that you remain civil.
http: //www.hypergridbusiness. com/2016/09/moses-calls-for-new-foundation-to-move-opensim-forward/

You calling bullsh*t is like the pot calling the kettle black!

sirhc deSantis

Had a play around, wish them all the luck in the world, etc as I reckon they might just do it, unity being not too bad to muck about in but to Ser Bolero (et al) - yeah, ten years back, future of the web yadda yadda yadda :) I was there..
Just like fusion has been just ten years away since I was - never you mind just how many years.

So I will stick to what works now as frankly I can't be arsed to dick around in yet another beta thats main attractions is - oh look. Free 'land' equivalent for content creators. How ground breaking. Where on earth did we hear that before...
Still, means its a better bait for the buyout :)

Han Held

@Coraline Dax; like you or anyone else, when I'm attacked, I attack back. Just as you, yourself would.

I disagree that my posts in this thread are off-topic, in fact they have been in response to other posts which introduced opensim into the conversation.

I understand that *claiming* that my posts are off-topic is intended to discredit them; but that doesn't mean that they actually *are* off-topic. It's a false claim that I can safely ignore -and will.

@Better Than Ezra; now who's trolling? I believe that would be you. I offered a critical opinion of what they intended to do, I did not tell them to stop it -it's an apples to Yugos comparision.

To recap; I didn't introduce the topic of opensim to this conversation, I replied to it after it was already brought up. Get used to it. If Opensim is brought up again and I have something to say, I'll be saying it.

Offering a counter opinion is neither trolling, nor authoritarian ...except in the minds of authoritarians. :)

Iggy Igardt

Everyone has heard H.H. demands, let us all obey or face the wrath,
reinvigorating another unfortunate disruption with severe punishment for those speaking out of line, after all (S)he is being serious.

everyone, keep in mind on the next non-opensimulater article H.H. knows best!

Kook of Kitely

@ Han
Kitely,OpenSim,KitelyMarketplace,Ivan,Kitely,
OpenSim,Inworldz is dying, Inworldz is unfree ,Inworldz is closed , Inworldz has no HG,Moses is Evil,Kitely,OpenSim,KitelyMarketplace,Ivan,Kitely,
OpenSim,

Lordsirm

I think this platform has legs, particularly if SL gets closed down. OpenSim enthusiasts...I'm sorry, but your not the future for SL lovers..it is too fractured to compete...ie Moses vs. Avination programming...competing Marketplaces...no single denomination of monetization...monetization types vs. keep-it-free types...and so on.
For those who simply like "free is good"...OpenSim wins...for those who like the the slickness of the SL Experience...Space has a better chance of winning that group, in my opinion.

Han Held

I mostly agree and slightly disagree, Lordsirm.

I think Space has free options so that if folks are only interested in a no-pay experience, they can get that (from what I can tell) from Space too.

There isn't a Space equivalent to owning your own grid and having control of the asset server, etc or being able to set your own policies. From where I sit, that level of control and empowerment is the biggest asset Opensim has.

There's the hypergrid, but I'm not even sure how to compare Space to that; I have to learn more about Space before saying.

But when it comes to the commercial side, though -marketplaces and such, you're spot on, though not for the reason you're saying.

Space has shopping baked in to the experience in a way that SL and Opensim doesn't. I'm excited to see what Space does with it's shopping exerience, but I have a feeling it will be very compelling.

And it will serve as a great introduction to creating commercial content for the Unity platform, which friends have told me makes more money than SL.

Opensim offers full control and it offers permanence (save a region to an oar -you'll always have it, as long as you have the ability to run opensim.exe), but it looks like Space will offer the slick, next generation VW experience that will be the true successor to Secondlife.

Argo Nurmi

JohnC

you talk about VW being empty places full of bricks waiting for builders. I fully agree. But, hasn't the valley made themselves rich by this scheme? What would Facebook be without faces? Who would bother logging in? The term for make lots of money on the backs of your own clients is to get the clients to build the content for you and then sell access to it back to those clients. Neat trick. I think its called a prosumer economy. Jaron Lanier writes about these in "Who Owns the Future." So does Alvin Toffler even further back. So to make a functioning (money making) VW you had better find a way for your players to create the world and then sell it back to them.

JohnC

Yes that is for sure the way it has been done thus far, SL perfected the process. OS only works because it feeds of of SL. But I cannot think of any other similar VR worlds that worked, Blue Mars failed. Space although better in so many ways, as yet seems to have almost no users, or there are none there when I take a look at regular intervals. Sansar will try to repeat in VR what it did in SL, and Hi Fidelity uses exactly the same model. The way I suggest, of actually providing a little more than just bricks and mortar has not been tried. To offer people a beautiful functioning world in which they can still build, just not set them back to zero. In a way it's similar to the way that people create mods for say Skyrim. Except in Skyrim you have none of the freedom that you have in SL, but you do have a lot more than bricks and mortar.

Kate

I joined SL in 2009, during this time spent a certain amount of time and money on second life - cats, houses, clothes, etc. Now this feeling that owner said "Hey SL no longer interesting for us we have a new project Sansar, bye,bye!". Land in SL is insanely expensive for virtual reality which could not be touched in real life. Most creative people therefore have gone from SL because they have no real ability to pay for land. I don't have money to buy VR and why i have to? I want have a cheap land in SL that's all. Sansar is not interesting for me.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Wagner James Au Discord Why the Metaverse Matters
Wagner James "Hamlet" Au
Dutchie Summer Special
Nylon Pinkney Outfitters in SL
SL Hair Fair Wigs for Kids benefit
my site ... ... ...