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Monday, December 19, 2016


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If it has a set of endgame goals and strict rules, then it's not a "wirtual world", because each participant is working towards one particular goal(or it's a final destination for everybody regardless of their progress speed). Therefore, of all 4 of your examples, only IMVU can fit the description, but even that thing seems to be questionable, as can we call a number of disjoined rooms a "world"?

Nexii Malthus

Have to agree with Ugh here.
IMVU is the only other example that comes close and even that is a really rough stretch.

Do you really define success purely by $? Are we just talking about shareholder success?

Or success as the definition of Virtual Worlds, pushing the state of the art of Virtual Worlds, of user freedom and independence for VWs?


On a side note, the closest competitor which I think could beat SL in terms of success as a Virtual World is probably the World Wide Web.

Adoptions of the combinations of WebVR ( https://mozvr.com/ and https://webvr.info/ ) & Web Payments APIs ( https://www.w3.org/Payments/ ), is IMHO a platform ripe for pioneers to drive the future of VWs back to the raw wild west of the web.

Being able to create, stream and view 3D content online with other users + being able to pay for said content/access are the pillars underlying the growth and stability of SL.

Web is really special with its' history, standardisation bodies and open source communities. Not to mention wide compatibility and effectively what are emergent behaviours from people being able to synergise multiple technologies at once.

Early days may appear rough, but take no mistake that these attempts will be the true spiritual successors.

Just like how Gravatar has been the seed for globally recognisable picture avatars, there will be service(s) for 3D avatars. (In fact, technically you don't need to change much at all, being able to upload and download assets is the same for pictures as it is for 3D geometry and textures)

Cathartes Aura

Hamlet makes a very good point. Second Life could have been even more successful than Minecraft or WoW. He is dead on balls accurate.

And that is the ultimate "what-if" now ain't it. What happened to SL was avoidable. The current state it's in is self-inflicted by the LL Board. Specifically, Mitch Kapor.

It's almost as if this was some kind of social experiment. The last 10 years. Ole Mitch took the only true free market meritocratic capitalist economy on the planet and he eviscerated it. It became a mirror of many real world economies. Completely crony capitalist. Utterly corrupt. Was all that planned? A 10 year mind game experiment gone bad. ;)

The wave crested years ago for LL/SL. They're in a "dead calm" and they aren't able to get out of it. It would take admitting mistakes on a massive scale and they can't do it. Someone will make global scale Virtual Worlds happen. IMO it won't be LL/SL. Or Mitch Kapor. ;)

And the Turkey Buzzard goes... hiss

Shockwave yareach

We users and creators warned the lab about how they were shooting themselves in the foot over and over again. It is LLs own fault and nobody elses.

At this phase they need to get builders to have inworld stores again. They need to bring the costs of land down and limit the amount of stuff one can have on marketplace; today builders make money on marketplace and dont have stores, leaving the world empty and barren. This is because inworld stores cost money while MP does not - anyone with an inworld store is at a severe disadvantage to anyone only in MP. This has not been good for the overall world.

Now i can buy a suit, but have nowhere to go.

Clara Seller

Ebbe is selling and campaigning. Since when do either one of those activities require a shred of honesty?

This is better than the previous selling phase when Ebbe was shamelessly dogging SL and it's users as baskets of deplorables in order to show investors he had no intention of repeating the past. That whoopin hurt.

It's really an extension of Cathartes delightful summary of the crony capitalism epidemic. When real and virtual life has been reduced to subjugation under a network of monopolies, we should be probably be grateful when the lies are at least flattering. It's SL exceptionalism for today. Yay! It's a good day.


The only thing in your list of comparison that even comes close to SL is IMVU. IMVU is for the people too scared or lazy to make a stake for themselves in Second Life. The others are on-the-rails, Disney World "It's a Small World" games.

The fact they are now claiming success for themselves is good and in the right direction. Especially after years or letting everyone trash talk their biggest product that no one has been able to topple. But I suppose it will take another decade before they finally admit that Second Life is VIRTUAL REALITY. The one and only people. And may be the only one for many years to come. The Dimwit competition with something to sell think they need headsets to finally live the "Ready Player One" life. Not so. Not so. But by denying this, denying Second life, I guess they think they can lie themselves to success.

Stuart Goddard

Pedantic. He obviously meant 'non-gaming' virtual world.


SL might be unique in having a critical mass of freedoms that allow a human chaos to emerge and start to evolve. Delusions of controlling it have come and gone...essentially just noise. Nurture it, and it will entertain us for many more years.


Maybe the problem is with the term “Virtual World”. The examples given are so diverse as to make comparisons impossible. If they are indeed all virtual worlds, then we need to class each example under a new genre all of it's own. Ebbe is correct to say that SL is the most successful of it's genre, there is nothing else like it. IMVU may seem close, to the uninitiated, but no SL user who is into beautiful mesh avatars, would look twice at the sad anime style, childish avatars on offer there.
And only those who seek a Rubik's cube type challenge would care to create Lego like environments in Minecraft.
SL does have a challenger though right now in Space. But SL is about the visceral immediate nature of what you create. If you understand this very specific focused example of the term “Virtual World” that we call SL, then you know that, very simply put, it will be a long time before any other platform comes even close to what it actually is. And it has a particularly seedy under world, that it dares any other platform to challenge. Like the Great Greek philosopher Costas Dimitriades once said “Boat is boat, fuck is fuck”. You are comparing boats with sexual intercourse, we need more subtle definitions of all examples. Sansar and Hi Fi are not SL either, as many SL users are about to sadly realize IMHO.


["And it has a particularly seedy under world, that it dares any other platform to challenge"]

Exactly JohnC, what I meant with "critical mass of freedoms that allow a human chaos to emerge and start to evolve"

There are so many sub-cultures within SL full of passionate participants, I think it's beautifully un-controlled. And new emergent properties are still germinating. Throwing down all sorts of fancy alternatives will not work unless the new "virtual world" finds a way to allow as much freedom to innovate as SL has [accidently?] done.


He said it because he's got nothing to hang his hat on except something he originally had nothing to do with.

I didn't realize, until now, that mediocre, know-nothing dummy Eggbert forshadowed Trump.


"I think it's beautifully un-controlled"
about the only thing I can say about SL that I always loved was it was, as I used to say, like the wild west, SL is still south of the boarder, it is all those places where the last cowboy's and girls drifted to. Where there were no fences. And life although short, was for a moment, worth the living

Cathartes Aura

Sunsets... That is what I still love about SL the most. Those beautiful sunsets. ;)

Some folks like to complain about the "good old days" in SL - when we all experienced things like the "flying penii", grey goo, griefers, Linden "Apes" banging on things, Ahern voice and text chat!! lol!!, etc etc.

For me that is what made SL wonderful. The bizareness of it all... ;)

Now who doesn't remember the fist time they heard about the following. Free Sex Area! What??? They have fake cocks?? Xcite what??? Where??? lol!! Archon ;), Fey's Fantasies ;). Your first sex bed... lol!

Now everything can't always be about sex. lol! SL was and still is a cool place for experiences like when you rezzed your first sailboat - Tako for me ;), finding Abbotts Aerodrome, ;), Sailing by Sirens Island in the Blake Sea - Linden build there is really nice - underwater especially.

The cool thing for me about all of it was that you just never knew what you would come across next. Just like JohnC stated above. It was the Wild West and what a cool thing that was!

Rewind 10 years ago and what was the general mood and morale of most SL Residents? IMO it was one of endless possibilities with this new World. And who killed all this? IMO the LL Board/Mitch Kapor.

And that is the ultimate irony of our Real and Virtual world economies. The folks actually responsible for the failures in both realms never have to answer for all those short sighted, selfish, greedy decisions. They're shareholders. Owners. They make every decision and whether the outcome is good/bad/indifferent they get paid. No accountability. And that is insane! lol!! ;)

Maybe Mitch Kapor should consider engaging with the SL community on topics like we all raise here in this wonderful forum. He should consider coming here and engaging in an actual back and forth conversation, instead of the usual monologue followed by pre-screened questions that folks like him usually get. lol!! ;)

So, here's my Christmas wish! Old Saint Nick... If you're listening?? And I know you are!! Send Mitch Kapor nothing but coal in his stocking if he does not come here to engage with us sometimes naughty, but always nice in the end folks. Amen!

And the Turkey Buzzard goes... Merry Christmas!! ;)


Eve Online, WoW and Minecraft aren't true virtual worlds. WoW is a MMORPG just like Eve Online (which is more of an economy simulator as well), while Minecraft is a Survival Sandbox (Adventure).

IMVU can be labelled a virtual world, but it is closer to a 3D chat due to lack of large pieces land, cities, towns, etc.



No, I take that back what I said about you.

Cathartes Aura


Is that you, Mitch??? Man, that Old Saint Nick works fast! lol!! ;)

The buck stops with the LL Board. Ebbe Altberg, Mark Kingdon, Rod Humble, etc. were and are "tools" used by the LL board to cover for their bad decisions.

They provide "cover" for Mitch Kapor. So Ole Mitch never has to answer for his bad decisions.

And that is the main failing of Crony Capitalist economies - Real or Virtual. The people responsible for what policies are implemented never have to face the music for their bad decisions. They hide. They obfuscate. They lie.

Ole Mitch has had every opportunity to face the residents of the world he destroyed. He can finally show some courage and try to defend his bad decisions. But the fact that he hasn't in the past and probably won't in the future speaks volumes about him.

Why should we residents show respect to a numnut like Mitch Kapor who has never shown one ounce of respect to any of us.

Ole Mitch is like a bad case of VD - He just won't go away... lol!!!

And the Turkey Buzzard goes... Merry Hissmas! ;)

Cathartes Aura


Thank You for this blog/forum! I can only imagine what you must hear from LL about all of us.

It's one of the only places that honest, straight, and sometimes brutal commentary about LL/SL occurs.

Other blogs censor anything they consider negative or critical of LL/SL or the LL Board.

The fact that you don't censor "deplorables" like me is appreciated. Thank You.

Adeon Writer

Probably because he doesn't consider Eve Online, World of Warcraft, or Minecraft to be virtual worlds. (I don't either. They are games.)

IMVU is a virtual world (kind of? You can't walk around in it, it's really just a stand and chat thing), but Second Life is easily more successful than it.

Adeon Writer

Probably because he doesn't consider Eve Online, World of Warcraft, or Minecraft to be virtual worlds. (I don't either. They are games.)

IMVU is a virtual world (kind of? You can't walk around in it, it's really just a stand and chat thing), but Second Life is easily more successful than it.

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