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Monday, March 12, 2018


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Rich Williams (Watcher aka Bill Blight)

I disagree that moving to amazon is going to be a "fundamental improvement" , it is a Ebbie decision. I would bet that moving to the cloud is a ploy to downsize their expenses for SL so that money can be funneled to Sansar. When you have a strategy like this "cloud instance" idea where regions only spin up when needed you don't have to maintain the hardware for the entire grid.

I seriously doubt that this move to the cloud has anything really to do with improving the user experience.

patchouli woollahra

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, and it has no further effect on how things proceed in the forest, is hosting a server to watch it happen a waste of resources?

Migration to cloud is most likely going to help trim the hosting costs of sims that aren't being actively used all the time. I predict a return of the 'hosting sim' that stays on all the time, but has its upkeep met by the many users who use it to host dropboxes or other always-on inworld items. Ideally, it would be a separate type of sim like OpenSpace or Homesteads, but configured to preference a more generous amount of comms and script execution over servicing the experience of residents who walk into it merely to service the 'servers' they require to be kept on 24/7.


i think is nonsense when sometimes we think LL have done little to make SL a "fundamentally" much richer experience and more worthwhile value proposition for us.

LI (available prims) has been doubled for the same price. Mesh and materials have completely changed the look and feel of everything. The avatar skeleton got a whole new extension. Mesh avatars and clothing are absolutely amazing. Animesh is currently being developed. Experiences permissions and script engine is an amazing interactive change. Tradeable environment settings are in beta now. And these just some of the things in recent times.

Sure I would love a full physics weather system also and the follow-ons from this, volumetric water in particular. But for me too say that because SL doesn't have this yet therefore LL are not doing anything for me would be wrong. Given everything LL have done for me, and are continuing to do today, to change my SL for the better since all the years I have been playing.

Prim miniskirt wedge anyone ?


There is only so much that can be done to uprade a 14 year old platform and I think that the Lab had done a fantastic job of making SL better since Ebbe took over. What the people of SL don't want to admit is that their user base is steadily decreasing while the average age of users is increasing.

I have to laugh at those begging for an SL2 considering the backlash when the new V2 viewer came out. Many are using Firestorm and other third party viewers just because they look like the original viewer. The vast majority of SL users do not want any significant change - period.

Of course Sansar is the right move for Linden Lab. With all the other next gen virtual worlds in development, it is unlikely that SL would be able to attract the next generation of people. Sansar is still in beta and has a long way to go before we will truly know its impact on SL or even its place among the next gen virtual worlds. I've been keeping my eye on all of them. My money is on Sansar. I'm glad that the Lab's money is too.


I have been in SL for a number of years now, and have noted continual improvements in both performance and the quality of the products being made available for purchase. This, despite the fact that the rent charged to me has not increased even though the number of Prims--I mean LIs--available to me has greatly increased.

There are some things about the experience I would love to have changed -and these are not uncommon complaints. I hate the growing emphasis on Gachas. I would love to see more server-side processing, ideally to the point where SL could be played over a browser at the highest resolutions. And I certainly think there is still work to be done in making the user interface for building more intuitive, including comprehensive "save" and "undo" capabilities.

But for the roughly 83 cents I pay each day for SL, it is still a tremendous deal. It is a place to build, explore, shop, and hang out with friends from the other side of the continent. All on a modest laptop.


Don't worry Ski school grad knows what he's doing.


How to improve SL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50A9wjJ40Dk (for the LOL)
It isn't easy to add or to adapt something to a system that wasn't designed for; also it isn't easy to make radical changes, when you have many years of user made content, economy, and so on, and you don't want to disrupt it, or at least to do as less damage as possible. Your hands aren't free and you have to resort to compromises and workarounds. It isn't impossible, however, as "bento" showed by introducing a new skeleton. Indeed there have been many improvements in the past years.
But you still have the legacy bits left and not optimal results. LSL alongside mono (and mono still has issues at sim crossings), the old avatars alongside bento (but some slider doesn't work, some other works partially; plus in videogames you don't usually have to wear or to set "alphas" and to put on "shoe-bases" the stuff that once used to be the actual system shoes), then system layers and mesh clothes, system hair used as brows-base alongside mesh wigs and so on... This creates confusion to SL newcomers (yup, there are still some) and increased complexity with all the technical consequences.

So sometimes it's easier to build something new from the ground up.

However Sansar (besides all the other issues) is too much SL2 (but so far the "dumbed down with a better graphic" version of SL): it doesn't look like it is hitting so many different targets other than SLers... who didn't go there en masse anyway. Actually traffic and Google Trends show it dead flat, instead (so near zero interest, despite all the media coverage and promotion). LL expects millions and millions of users so they cold keep the experiences fee low (unlike SL lands). So far it doesn't look like that, but the niche of a niche. If they can't make it profitable, I can't see a bright future for Sansar. Ebbe Altberg knows his stuff and I really like how Sansar wanted to be creative-friendly, but more an experience than a game, but it feels like the project is grasping here and there out of touch. When I see Sinsespace instead, it is a work of love from who seems to be really into this and has clear ideas that make sense. Either LL has a secret ace in the hole or they will have to make their mind up and to think at something out of their usual box. I used to check regularly the new changes and updates, but eventually I found myself logging more likely in VRChat, even more in Sinespace. While still being social virtual spaces, they offer something different and they became more alive. I don't know if any of these or another virtual world will become ubiquitous or at least "somewhat working" like Second Life. Surely there isn't just LL trying to make something better now.


Surely there are people who don't like changes so much (that doesn't happen just in SL), but the vast majority of people eventually is wearing mesh clothes. Just because something is new isn't necessarily better though. But even when it's better, people tend to stay where their friends are (in a vicious circle).

I don't think Firestorm and other TPVs are so widely used just because they looks like the original viewer: Firestom looks as you want it looks (totally customizable), while other TPVs except Singularity and Cool VL don't look like the original viewer. V2 web based parts (eg. profiles) were sluggish and sometimes didn't load at all (it still happens). Besides that, V1 an Phoenix, until they lasted, were deemed more lightweight. Firestom inherited and added many *new* useful functions and improvements that LL viewers doesn't have. Other viewers have other special features. Taking screen-shoots always used to be better on TPVs too. Many TPVs support RLV and there is a large BDSM community in SL that uses that. Firestorm is more stable. Firestorm released a 64 bit version earlier and supports Linux too. And so on.

Clara Seller

I have to agree with Susan, because she's always on point. It's been years since we've been able to whack SL users as Viewer 2 "change haters" and it feels darn good to crack that whip again. She's also offered an absolute gemstone in putting V2 and Sansar in the same big box with a bow on it. This is Linden Lab's gift to you. Pay for it and shut up.

V2 and Sansar may not be crowd pleasers, but the crowds have always disappointed Linden Lab. We may have created a few millionaires and propped up a ground breaking gaming business for over a decade, but we have failed in our mission. We were supposed to create gods and we must pay for that to the end of time.

Susan and I see the bigger picture. I'm with her. If we have to burn down the whole thing, then let's bring on the fire and fury. We don't need happy customers, we need to look up and be inspired by the majesty of those above us.


I'll just point out some MAJOR developments that have happened in Second Life, all of which are GROUNDBREAKING.

BENTO! - New VERSATILE skeleton. Any Avatar possible

Animesh! - Fully rigged NPCs in SL, coming soon!

Bakes on Mesh! - Allows mesh avatars to utilize SL layers!

Windlight Assets! - Save your windlight settings and trade them or sell them!

These are THE BIGGEST projects that LL has taken on since mesh, which was a very long time ago. In many ways, Sansar was a blessing to SL, because it allowed the SL development team, run by Oz, to be more focused with a smaller team. I also think Ebbe gave them the freedom to take on projects like Bento. Although Sansar is going thru some pains right now. I would not bet on it being abandoned any time soon by the Lab.


You are right, Medhue, and with all the money and effort they have put on Sansar, I don't believe as well that they are going to easily abandon it. They are still actively working on it. Second Life isn't going to die anytime soon, but on the long run LL needs another profitable project, as long as they find a way to make it work. Ebbe Altberg is aware of the risk to end up with «two things that don’t really work rather than one thing that sort of works. [But] I don’t see if we have a choice.»

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