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Wednesday, May 22, 2019

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Joey1058

I just want to share Psalm 139 7-12 with the readers of this story:

7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.

I think God has a pretty good concept of VR. While Drumsy might not have been the best example of it, the baptism online is still legitimate in many perspectives.

Lysana

That's space which has been explored in Second Life and by more than Christians. I was with a Neo-Pagan group that designed and provided a version of the Eleusinian Mysteries revival/reconstruction begun in the 1970s by the Church of All Worlds. Many of the people who assisted had never been in a virtual world before and were convinced going in they could not possibly have the same experience sitting in front of a computer as they would live. They proceeded to eat crow in two realms. The reality of religious experiences are in the mind, heart, and soul. People who attach so much to the tools that they deny the power of others which do the same thing because of newness alone are limited thinkers.

sirhc desantis

The VR Church, motto - "It doesn’t matter if you believe in God or not."
(Straight up - on its web site haha) Well thats a relief then. Apart from where it lists its indoc... erm belief systems. A-PEST sums it up nicely.

Seriously - this is a new thing? Very quick search gives you

https://academic.oup.com/jcmc/article/4/2/JCMC425/4584380

from 1998. And thats one of the less woo woo ones.

God

No, religion is BS, so is spirituality.

Adeon Writer

Religious or non-religious, I think we can all agree it's the same level of realness as a regular baptism.

DeltaHelix

Unfortunately, this is an ancient Gnostic heresy. God became incarnate in matter and has chosen to use matter as the means of salvation (both on the cross and in his sacraments). You ARE your body, you are not just a ghost piloting a flesh puppet. The Incarnation is witness to this and so is the physicality of Baptism. These Baptisms unfortunately cannot be valid in Christianity as they deny the physical reality of the Incarnation. This ministry is great, but it should encourage people to seek out a local church to get baptized and get involved in the local community. God established the ekklesia, which often is translated as "Church" but is literally translated as a "gathering", for this reason. Being a Christian is more than mental assent to some truths as it is written: "even the demons believe, and shudder". It is through the local church that they are able to interact with the Body of Christ in an Incarnational/physical manner and to witness to those in the real world. We come to faith, and that is good, but then comes time to go out into the world and walk with the Lord, following in the footsteps of the Apostles. Part of that is Baptism in real life, as a witness to the truth of the Incarnation and that matter has been redeemed and is good. A digital mode is defective and does not follow the Lord's explicit instruction concerning how this is to be done. To say this is valid is a Gnostic view and is not incarnational.

DeltaHelix

And before you say anything about not being qualified to speak on this; I built my own PC VR headset with 6dof motion tracking capabilities at 12 years old, was coding videogames and running servers out of command prompt as early as 8 years old, bought the first oculus quest before meta took over in order to make games for it, am a Computer Science/Mathematics/Information Technologies triple major, and I am quite familiar with using VR frequently. I should hope my attached website evidences this. As for theological credentials, I am Baptised, have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me, am under a Church of orthodox teaching regarding biblical inerrancy, am well-read on scripture as well as the history of Christianity, and I am drawing from over 2020 years of in-depth theology backing the simplest and most agreed upon item in all of Christain history. I hope this is taken as a prompt to revise your mission plan to better align itself with Holy Scripture and the unanimous consensus of the Church pertaining to the essence of Christianity itself (the incarnation, the human person, and how that pertains to baptism).

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