« How Julliana Cane Turns Second Life Screenshots Into Imagery that Looks Like Classic Landscape Paintings | Main | Cajsa's Second Life Flickr Choice: B:ia & Her Beautifully Composed Pics »

Monday, March 02, 2020

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

nick

I'm not surprised in the slightest that it failed - the introductory outfits looked like bad start-trek prim clothing from the early second life days. The user experience wasn't great at all, with little in the name of viewer customization and stuff like that.

If they took the fundamentals from second life and integrated it into sansar, or all the cool features from sansar into second life, then they'd have a darn-solid product guarunteed to succeed. Sansar had everything that Second Life needed, with a HORRIBLE front/new-user experience.

Jacklord

Buying Sansar would be like buying a Betamax or a CD Walkman. Remember those?

I wouldn't buy it for 2 bananas.

Captain Obvious

What's so frustrating is that fifty to sixty million dollars can't seem to buy anything more than some really expensive excuses.

You'd think that it could, at least, buy a lesson.

The end of the story was so painfully obvious before the first chapter was written. It was obvious to the SL customers who knew that this incarnation of LL was incapable of making something that anyone would want. They weren't even capable of keeping customers on a product that everyone really, really wanted.

In the middle of being lost, is a bad place to star a new journey.

vwfan

Tyche Shepherd just posted a recent daily concurrency graph on the SL forums. As she puts it, "Concurrency is falling, slowly but the trend is a decline - This can be seen with both the Maximum Daily Concurrency and the Median daily concurrency." You can refer to the following link.

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/450260-a-look-into-the-health-of-the-second-life-grid/?do=findComment&comment=2070867

Alicia

I'm going to repost what I said from FB:

That's just one of the many problems. You simply can't swap out game engines as you will end up breaking the game and being forced to see it shut down.

The second problem was that Linden Lab were never real game developers. Case in point, their game engine specifically built for Second Life. That engine is very similar to what Daybreak Games (formerly Sony Online Entertainment - SOE) and Turbine Inc. (now part of Warner Bros. Games Boston circa 2018, while being bought originally by WB back in 2009) had out with EverQuest and Asheron's Call, both of which came out in 1999... the same year the engine for SL was created. Both companies never cosmetically upgraded their games due to the fact that the engines could never truly handle it. That brings me back to the engine LL created for SL. That very engine, used with the same coding that was used to bring EQ and AC to life, was never meant to handle mesh and textures larger than it could handle. LL never understood that fact, and now people are bringing in textures larger than the engine can handle, mesh objects/bodies with entirely too many polygons, etc. Hell, even high end PCs lag with Second Life because of how everything is uncompressed and unoptimized.

Yes, SL IS 17yrs. old this year and has many great updates, however, people need to realize that the truth... the truth is that ALL game developer companies have to try and put out successors to the original. They have to. Yes, Sansar was an utter flop, and there's no denying that. The problem LL now has with SL is that there's not much it can do to update it anymore. When games get past a certain age, they become that much harder to update. This is fact. Games either end up entering maintenance mode (gamer speak for eventual shutdown), or they simply shut down entirely.

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubbles, but this is the truth, and I'll leave it at that.

Cathartes Aura

Top 2 issues that killed off SL as a mass market product.

1. Rigging the Land/Land Tier Market - No one with at least one thinking brain cell is going to "invest" in the SL Land Market and open a "business" knowing that they are paying much higher tier(33.3% higher min.) than folks getting tier discounts. It benefits the folks getting these discounts and NO ONE ELSE.

2. Building In-World. LL never provided building tools for Sculpties or Mesh like those that existed for Prims. Provide a de-former and optimizer. People love to build in-world and socialize. But the LL Board of Directors NEVER understood that... "They" pissed off millions and millions and millions tilting at windmills. Minecraft is gigantor successful because they recognize what people want and give it to them(in-world building tools) - The LL Board of Directors does the opposite.

If you rig a system to benefit the few at the expense of the many you eventually destroy everything around you and everyone loses. The LL Board of Directors took a dynamic, exciting, WIDELY prosperous fun place to be and "they" created a completely rigged "Ken and Barbie Land". Vapid. Arrogant. Boring. Kens and Barbies... As far as the eye can see.

This Ole Carrion Eaters prior offer still stands. I'll give you a plugged nickel for Sansar. Buzzardcoin crypto currency? A big pile of Buzzard Droppings? ;)

Better get a bunker

Sad. It seems the VR establishment is dead inside and it's becoming pointless to look to them for a future. It's as if they've built a box around their own limitations and this is the only place that they can draw inspiration from."Your World, Your Imagination" has become "We Can't Do That".

Sl was such a good idea. Of course it was, it was life, people, fun, and full of promise. It needed scrutiny. It needed more fertile soil to grow on. It needed the tech people and the money people to do what they're supposed to do, solve the problems and be the solution. We need a new platform, fine. Build it. We never needed the tech people and money people to be the vision of what's fun and what isn't and stop listening to what we want.

SL provided enough resources to grow it's future on, so let's not blow that smoke up anyone's rump. It's a great model. Someone who doesn't need it all for themselves, who appreciates fun and community, will find it's dormant seed and plant it one day. I hope I"m around when that happens. For now, it's a melting glacier.

Anonymous

“Sansar wasn’t marketed as Second Life 2.” -Pulsar

“Sansar will be Second Life, but better.” - Ebbe Linden

Hm...

TD Gunner

"As Second Life Ages, Linden Lab Had To Try Something Like Sansar"

Nope. What LL HAD to do was fix second life and provide a better experience. They did not do what the had to do.

What they DID was piss off the loyal customer to go off on an expensive adventure.

The result SL is still limping along and that $60 million is gone forever.

What LL HAS to do now is fix the core product; but they won't.

Tired Jake

Agree with Alicia. LL needs to diversify its portfolio.

@TD Gunner Second Life cannot be "fixed" - the tech is way too old and to change it would mean making many items in people's inventory literally un-usable.

@Nick - you're thinking of Sansar in terms of Second Life. Sansar was never about avatars, or dressing up avatars. It was supposed to be about "experiences". That only failed because LL didn't and haven't provided the tools to make experiences interactive. They (can) look beautiful, but interacting with objects is very, very basic or impossible.

Alicia

"Nope. What LL HAD to do was fix second life and provide a better experience. They did not do what the had to do."

@TD Gunner, that very statement was wrong. Linden Lab had to create Sansar because of the fact that SL was aging to the point where they couldn't update it any longer. Now... they have no successor as Sansar is in fact dead. The truth is that LL WILL get to a point where they can't update and milk SL anymore. That day is coming as newer virtual world come out and offer more bang for your buck. In fact, they can't fix the core product because if they even make an attempt to do it, then, they might as well shut the game down. It will cost way more to fix SL and LL simply can't afford it.

Simply put, TD Gunner, and @Tired Jake said it best, "Second Life cannot be "fixed" - the tech is way too old and to change it would mean making many items in people's inventory literally un-usable."

Amanda

Abel Dreamscape has passed away in real life, one of the finest creators we ever had, he will be missed. his sims will be deleted by linden lab in the next two weeks, maybe you could do a story on his work while the sims are still up? his family has already requested his account to be deactivated while his marketplace store is now closed.

Wagner James Au

Any link for this to verify?

Upsers

Working In-World. LL never gave building instruments to Sculpties or Mesh like those that existed for Prims. Give a de-previous and enhancer. Individuals love to work in-world and mingle. In any case, the LL Board of Directors NEVER got that... "They" annoyed millions and millions and millions attacking imaginary enemies. Minecraft is gigantor fruitful in light of the fact that they perceive what individuals need and offer it to them(in-world structure apparatuses) - The LL Board of Directors does the inverse.

JoeDex

@ Tired Jake and @Alicia
What you say is just not true. Nothing, and I mean nothing, in software cannot be fixed. It is, at its core, just code. Here's what LL could have done.

Create a new optimized platform that had all the items we love in SL: Social, Building, AVIs, walking from One place to another, etc. AND then build a portal, or transition from Legacy SL to the new SL2.0 Do not tell me that it cannot be done. It most certainly can be done; and should have been done.

Of course certain things would no longer work. How do those Windows 95 games run on Windows 10? Some don't run at all; that is the cost of progress. So don't be naive; us regular users are not unaware that things would break. Did they have to break the AVI? No. Could they have made an engine that would accept the majority of SL objects already purchased. You know damn well that could be done.

For the $60 million that they pissed away they could have done it. This is what their user base wanted. This is what their 40,000 user base expected.

Now? Well sadly, it is too late. They will ride the wave all the way down, and we will move on to Sinespace. Sinespace, a game that actually works and you can do more in than stand around.

Alicia

@JoeDex, I really wish you didn't say, "just code".

There's way more to a game engine that "just code". If you change parts of a code, and suddenly parts of the game become bugged, or even unplayable.

Let me point this out to you... right now. Linden Lab could not create ANY type of bridge between Second Life and any successor it makes because of the engines. SL's engine, and Sansar's engine are/were two different engines that were coded differently. Simply put, you cannot change game engines from one game and introduce it to another as the coding is different and will break the game entirely.

Why do you think successors, or even new games must be made? I don't mean to burst your bubble, but developers have to create the successors or new games, or they may as well not exist at all. Linden Lab had to create Sansar in attempt to give people its successor to SL. Yes, it failed and it's dead.

The answer to another question you posed, no... creators would have to re-upload everything, and people would have to buy the item once more. New game... new start... etc.

Angelina Sinclair

LL jumped in the VR bandwagon too early. That's like a gaming company jumping in on Atari thinking it is a PlayStation or Xbox which were both industry changing consoles.

They didn't even know the possibilities or limitations of the hardware before jumping in. Of course this was going to fail and so many knew it would!!

What LL meds too do is start working on SL2. That simple. Then create an importer feature that lets you import your inventory from SL to SL2. Bam! Booming success! Keep both grids up so users can go back incase they don't like it or their friends haven't migrated yet.

SL2 could also be the start of something amazing. They could fix all past problems, redo the land Baron situation, change how traffic works, recreate the gui to be better, and god knows what else.

It wouldn't even need new features. Just a better engine and fixes to old issues would be enough to get high praise from the community.

Alicia

"What LL meds too do is start working on SL2. That simple. Then create an importer feature that lets you import your inventory from SL to SL2. Bam! Booming success! Keep both grids up so users can go back incase they don't like it or their friends haven't migrated yet."

Unfortunately @Angelina Sinclair, it will not work.

No company will ever allow that as they would want the successor to be completely new.

That means you get a brand new engine, new avatars, new viewer, new everything. You do not get to import anything over from the predecessor to its successor. Creators will have to re-upload everything all over again under brand new guidelines. I've already said this back on March 4th.

You think it's simple? No, it's not cut and dry simple. Everything you said will lead to disaster. New game... new start... new beginnings. You do not get to import anything over.

Here's what you, and I'd say almost everyone that's ever been in a Social MMO is afraid of, starting over. When successors or new games to any MMO comes out, you start over from day one. Absolutely none of your stuff goes with you as all of the stuff from the predecessor are specifically coded for the game you came from. Your money stays on the original game. Your avatar stays, etc. Linden Lab tried to give you all that with Sansar, and deny it all you want, but Sansar was SL's successor. Sansar's dead. Linden Lab failed to bring everyone its successor. It would take them every ounce of money they have remaining to start up a second successor, but unfortunately, they're not.

Angelina, I've played so many MMOs in nearly a 20yr. span that I'm all too familiar with starting over. That's the nature of the beast that is the MMO Metaverse.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Wagner James Au
Sinespace virtual world Unity free home
Breakroom virtual meetings conferences-GIF
Ample Avi  SL avatars
my site ... ... ...