SLer Travels to Elder Scrolls Online, Shocks Players With Drama Horror Stories

Responding to the question, "Does Second Life Have Way More Player Drama Than Traditional MMOs?", longtime SLer Jumpman Lane (no stranger to drama himself) offers a first-hand compare and contrast:

I would say the chief difference between drama in SL and say drama in The Elder Scrolls Online is a matter of scale, a matter of scope. Precisely because people in ESO aren't in a world where "nearly everything in the virtual world is created by users" they don't stir up drama outside their own rather small cliques.

For example, take the Trial Scene. Trials are 12 man dungeons where players have to be rather accomplished players to be effective. A lot of finger pointing ensues as a result of failure. (Failure being measured by leader-board scores). Outside of the trial group, very few would be aware of the very REAL drama going on between the people within it.

Because people in ESO are shoe-horned into fitting within the world itself (made by the company developing it) they are limited in the means that they can use to "strike back" at their enemies. Even should they go outside their MMO world, to say Twitch or YouTube, the drama remains limited because the interest isn't there. people are rigidly, PvPers or PvEers and won't notice. As a result, their dramas are rather like tempests in a teapot (as opposed to the grid-wide drama possible in Second Life). 

The fact that SL is single-sharded is another major factor for drama -- whereas many or most drama in sharded MMOs will be confined to the specific shard where the drama gets dramatic. (Like Second Life, Eve Online is also single-sharded, and holy fucking fuckarollee there are whole long articles about drama in Eve.)

Anyway, Jumpman continues, ESO players were shocked when he shared with them the horror stories of SL drama:

I found the people in ESO very INNOCENT when it came to drama. I mean, I didn't even know what people meant by "toxic" until I played ESO. Once I realized what it meant, I realized, "These fools don't have a clue. I'm the most toxic person they're ever likely to ever MEET." What they considered "drama" was just another day in Second Life. You get that just logging in lol.

I had a friend in ESO who knew me in SL and she was like, "Jump! Do they know who you ARE?" I was like, "Nah, they don't have a clue..." Now, I had friends in ESO who I played with everyday. I was in Discord with them every day. Since my @name there is Jumpman Lane there too, I tried explaining about SL and who I was there. They were SHOCKED. Now, they had their own little dramas, people they didn't like or whatever in ESO. They couldn't CONCEIVE of the scale of drama possible in Second Life.

In a virtual world where you can be anything you want to be, stabbing back at your enemies is only limited by your imagination. Drama tends to spiral out of control in Second life. Though, Linden Lab is very pro-active in its governance of its game. Lindens are people too and not above engaging in a bit of drama themselves. Lindens are more hands on with their virtual world, much of it they didn't even create. They "play" their "game" (contrasted with the devs of ESO, who MAKE their game but don't play it, and if they DO play it, they don't play it well). Again, Lindens are more hands on.

...  Having played ESO, I've learned that the rather ridiculous "high drama" of SL is best tempered by restraint. Because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD... especially in a world limited only by your imagination.

It's an interesting point that some Lindens are themselves embroiled in SL user drama. That's not completely a surprise, as many Lindens are recruited from the user community, and during off-hours often keep playing as their "civilian" avatar.

Is there a way to lessen the drama? Nothing's perfect, of course, but I still think my proposal for adding a Reddit-like Karma system would work relatively well. Then again, the reader reaction to that proposal is pretty much... full of drama.

Comments

[Alicia]

I believe Jumpman said everything that was needed to be said for the most part, with a few small exceptions.

One, the devs for games such as Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), World of Warcraft (WoW), DC Universe Online (DCUO), Lord of the Rings Online (LotRO), etc., actually do play the very games they develop from time to time. So, they do know their players. They also engage the players on the forums as well mainly with Community Managers/Moderators. There's good, and there's also the bad when it comes to discourse... but again, it's nothing like it is with SL.

Two, as it pertains to raiding in MMOs, all it takes for a player to become a decent to a superb raider is time, patience and practice. In MMOs, players have to learn their attack or healing rotations, as well as when to use their "OH SHIT!" buttons when they're about to die in a major boss fight. In WoW, depending on whether its a Normal or Heroic Raid, you are playing with at least 10-30 other people. In WoW Mythic Raiding, it's 20. WoW LFR, it's 25 and considered a joke to many who believe that those who go the LFR route are lazy. In other MMOs that have raiding, they may go about it differently, but the point is that most of the drama amongst players is mainly about how people play the game... and ultimately becomes dust in the wind shortly thereafter.

In SL, what do you have? User created content that's utterly unoptimized, a potential failure on updated sim crossings as it only works if the world was made seamless in the first place, DMCA abuse, copybotting, and the list goes on. People bringing their RL attitudes into a virtual world and creating toxic environments. And, a proposal from Wagner to introduce a Reddit-like karma system. The karma system would literally be used as a tool to create an even more toxic locale on any type of forums, Reddit or non-Reddit and would be akin to the old IGN Vault Boards as there would be Nazi Moderators and their favorites; as well as those who would get banned from there just because they said one thing wrong or didn't kiss anyone's ass. The other problem is that Linden Lab has their favorites and will be utterly biased and partisan, rather than engaging the community in a non-partisan, neutral manner as they should be. Don't think it won't happen? Think again, because it will.

[Jumpman Lane]

@Alicia is right. The hive-mind would dominate a reddit-like karma system, as far as governance goes. Linden lab in the past has done a marvelous (and very pro-active) job with respect to policing the grid.

Drama is not new to Second Life. It's also not as bad as it's been in the past...by a LONG shot. I went to the gteam meeting today. What shocked me was that the discussion was dominated by a gal crying in voice (TEARS) about being "griefed" at a club. I was incredulous and made it known. I asked for examples. One of the crying woman's pals sent me 3 note cards that detailed the "abuse." It was all in effect an ex-employee of the club spamming details and club gossip in nearby chat.

What struck me was how readily the gteam Lindens took this as HIGH drama and SERIOUS business. That's not griefing. Griefing is when people log into Second Life with the intent of wrecking the days of people they don't even know. This was a personal dispute, best handled by the tools of the game (specifically the ban/eject tool of LAND POWERS).

I related how griefers in days past, crashed sims to form swastikas on mainland in Second Life. There were people there who remembered such days. I wasn't sure if the Lindens in charge of the gteam now, recall such things. This was evidenced, again, by how seriously they seemed to be taking this rather personal dispute.

Imagine, how banal events such as "crappy lil club drama" would play out if there were a reddit-like karma system. You would see everyday disputes devolve into disciplinary action. No, @Alicia is right. We should demand objectivity with respect to governance in Second Life.

People should toughen up more too. What many consider "drama," "griefing," "trolling," etc is little more than them getting their feelings hurt IN-GAME. Take Johnny Lawrence. When they yelled, "Johnny you're a cream puff!" He didn't burst into tears. He got some blood wiped off his face, went out and SWEPT the leg! Folks could learn a lot from Cobra Kai...

I get where you're coming from though, Hamlet. Philip's LOVE MACHINE, which was a very POSITIVE thing. Again, @Alicia is right though: Philip Rosedale had a very positive vision for Second Life. The Love machine was another expression of his positivity. It's safe to say Rosedale is a very positive guy in real life. He brought that positivity into the metaverse (that HE helped create).

I believe you would imagine that people would use a reddit-like karma system POSITIVELY due to your experiences with Linden culture, The Love Machine, etc. Yet, folks would bring their very real world selves into its use...and it would go badly. Again, @Alicia was right.

[Petey]

The TL;DR of Jumpys comment is that a karma system would only work for normal people, not the failures attracted to a second life