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Tuesday, January 26, 2021

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Valentina Kendal

I agree completely. I used to make things (jewelry) in world, standing there in a sandbox or my workshop, talking with other people, using the tools the Creators gave us. Now content creation occurs offline using other software and while we all look better, content creation is far less accessible, and that is sad. But for new users, they don't even know that. Even other in world residents have become an annoyance to the consumer minded: many people go through the world in Show Friends Only mode.

Eeri Ethaniel

Agreed. We were working on a major SL project, but when mesh because the standard, it made the project pretty much unfinishable. Especially since mesh wouldn't do some of the things that prims would; but no one wanted prim based builds.

Summer Haas

He's apparently never played Minecraft or any other voxel MMO.

camilia fid3lis nee Patchouli Woollahra

What I would give for a full implementation of CSG prims instead of the dumb "addition-only" approach we now have. carving holes in prims that are more unusual that the standard cylindrical/triangular/square holes, or making strange new shapes that are the intersection of two different prims.

We also lost the ability to define connections between specific prims in a linkset very early in the Second Life beta. bring that back - imagine actual working windchimes banging away in the breeze? or even easier definitions of rotations between joints in a prim-based sculpture.

There are a lot of possibilities in a prim-based approach - if only LL had continued banging down that door hard. Even if you needed a final publish to get it out into the world as a mesh everyone could see (booleans can get expensive very fast in realtime), perhaps you could have a mixed object format where the original prims are preserved, but the baked mesh resulting from all those operations is what makes it into the world.

such a shame. still, at least it's still open to being used for prototyping and roughing stuff out inworld, prims.

Joey1058

Jeff nailed this one. Mesh based worlds require a lot of time and forethought, and working outside in a creation program. This is IMVU in a nutshell as well. You go in and buy what you want if you can't run Blender. Your creations there are limited to what other people sell. This is what made Roblox so popular. Simple prim based creations. It took me till now to understand that!

Tankgirl

Nonsense. Yes, 3d mesh models are imported in. But the most important part, the building of environments is done together inworld in real time. You can build a sim together. Meshes are just different, more advanced building blocks. This is old people complaining everything used to be better before tv, or the internet.

Adeon Writer

It also made it not ugly as sin.

camilia fid3lis nee Patchouli Woollahra

One of my favorite prim-only builds is an Elemental Air/Land/Sea vehicle - it uses the same prims for all three main forms, but changes prim parameters to form a boat, plane, blimp, hovercraft or car etc. you can't do that with sculpties or mesh. Granted it's very simple and minimalist, but it dates from an era where vehicles were rarely made of anything more than 31 prims due to physics and LI counting methods of the time. And it was free!

One of my favorite mainly-sculpty builds is a hairdo from Curio obscura that also serves as a cake delivery system, with swaps between sculptmaps and textures to change toppings and frostings. You can't do that as easily in mesh without some severely heavy polygonal overloads, and prims wouldn't be able to simulate some fruit shapes.

You can have a hybrid approach to using mesh, sculpties and prims. Each of those building blocks comes with its own strengths and weaknesses, so a wise builder would not immediately discount anything that isn't mesh but examine what they require of the build and choose accordingly.

Some of the strongest builds in SL are the ones where the creator has chosen to play up to the strengths of each kind of asset and not make mistakes like using one kind of asset to do a job that can be better done by another.

Adeon Writer

> you can't do that with sculpties or mesh

Only because Linden didn't let it. Models have been able to do that for a very, very long time in the rest of the 3D modeling world. Way better than prims could ever hope to do.

They're called Blendshapes / Shapekeys.

seph

Did the axe devalue the sharp stick? Are axes complex? Only very few Second Lifers believe that's a real debate, the rest of us wish we could catch up with the rest of the 3D creative industry and have chainsaws.

Jeff (AM Radio)

Echoing my reply on Facebook:
Ha, I kinda figured you might do this as I was writing that. 😂 I know about the in world meshing. The complex nurbs based modeling with considered texture optimization and baked effects will always be a step ahead. Minecraft proved high fidelity is commodified in a world that doesn’t need to push past 4K and the kids don’t care if their AAA game is from 2017 as long as the gameplay still rocks. Prims were somewhere between Minecraft and AAA. It worked, and then it didn’t. Am I saying it’s not worthwhile to create and be an artist, of course not, as per usual being an artist is not a lucrative lifestyle without a champion of the Likes of Bettina Tizzy et al. There’s more to
Being an artist than the media you’re using. As I said in the polygon article, “‘Avoid showcasing a particular technological capability,’ Berg says, ‘but instead, build experiences that remind us how human we are and have always been.’”

Osiris Indigo

They really need to add in a few tools now that the bandwidth constrains of 2003-2007 have been lifted and people have 100x the bandwidth they used to have. Those prim tools were CREATED for low bandwidth. Add to the tools and give us “Prims 2.0” and give us lathing, Booleans, real joins with optimization, chamfered and rounded corners, slice, etc. I see tools everyday that are built on javascript tools that give the user all of this and more. Just look at a simple tool like Tinkercad by Autodesk, designed to help kids build 3D objects for printing. It will do 10x the stuff that prims will do and it runs in a browser. Come on Linden Labs!

Johnny

Just like the demise of feudal Japan, as I noted 11 years ago:

https://secondlifeshrink.com/2009/12/16/virtual-bakumatsu/

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