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Tuesday, June 29, 2021

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Tamedcat

Anyone that posts them for prices like that should have them pulled down

seph

Anyone can list a gacha on marketplace for any amount of money, it doesn't mean it sells for that price. The fact that you've seen the listings means they haven't sold.

Gachas fall waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay short in value of say, CCG cards where the amount of money spent on gacha a gacha set can buy a a booster pack that results in Pokemon or MTG cards that are actually worth thousands of dollars down the line.

There's proof of MTG's Black Lotus or Pokemon's Holo Charizard selling for whatever they're worth. What gacha item though is worth several thousands of dollars? Several hundred? Tens of dollars even? None of them are.

The value of gacha is really capped by percentage odds of getting any rare. None of the popular events have ever allowed percentages dip to some dismal rate like 1% or below, they're all 10% or more, at 100L or less a play. Who's gonna spend thousands of dollars, or even tens of dollars on anything in Second Life that odds are, you'll get in 5 dollars or much less?

Seeing a listing of a gacha for thousands of USD isn't proof it's worth that much or ever sold for that much. Show me a gacha you think is worth that much, and I can probably go to the original machine and get it in 10 plays or so.

Wagner James Au

"Anyone can list a gacha on marketplace for any amount of money, it doesn't mean it sells for that price."

Quick search of Gacha items listed as "Best Selling" shows offerings that have sold for up to L$4000 (i.e. about USD $16) with L$1000 to L$2000 (about USD $4-8) looking to be the general range for most others. As Vaki mentions, some states regulate against gumball machines giving out prizes for far less monetary value.

seph

Sorting by 'Best Selling' gives you no indication of what no-copy/trans items sell for. Anyone can list them for anything. A popular gacha item can resale a thousand times at 100L earning that 'Best Selling' status, but not once at a ridiculous price like 1,000,000L.

Search for the gacha items you show in that image with outrageous prices, there's more of the exact same items listed for 100-300L. Why believe anyone is paying x100-x1000 more? And again, even those at the much lower and reasonable prices are still listed, meaning they're not selling. More often than not gachas are sold at or below play price.

I don't get the bubble gum machine comparisons given there's much closer ones like the plethora of gacha mobile games, CCGs print and digital, loot crate type boxes and heck, Happy Meal toys even. If gumball machines really are illegal in some states, that hasn't seemed to effect all sorts of other gacha-like products.

The last time there was worry about any of this it was went states actually were proposing legislation and regulation against loot boxes. As far as I know they all failed, and no state nor the federal government has taken a significant stance against money for randomized virtual items.

Chris

I cannot take a "reporter" seriously who completely ignored a well thought out post to respond to a comment that supports your biased dislike toward gachas:

https://gyazo.com/610a261ce35926be4a3dde02b6c4ca4d

I'm not a fan of them but your argument is so weak. And bringing in an "attorney"...this Vaki person...anyone can claim to be anything on the internet. You thought I was an attorney and invited me to give my opinion just because I said I was an attorney:

https://gyazo.com/0f5a61eb134d215a9c2f9b0f1422972b

People resell stuff all the time marked up at higher prices. Its a miracle you don't go after Ebay.

Wagner James Au

eBay actually has strict regulations on the sale of gambling-related items:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/gaming-machines-slot-poker-machines-policy?id=4312

I checked Vaki's highly impressive RL credentials as a lawyer before quoting her. It's super mysterious that people who keep raising objections to her analysis on social media don't post them here.

seph

What does eBay's policy on selling literal slot machines have to do with anything? I'm sure you know the point was that anything can be sold on eBay for any price, and that doesn't mean it's that items value, just like with SL Marketplace.

You found a lawyer on Plurk who shares your disapproval of gacha. That's fine, but that doesn't make it a matter for anyone else.

You've contacted and quoted Linden Lab's legal counsel here before, so you're aware that they have lawyers of their own that are actual experts of their business. If you really wanted a legal analysis you'd probably have reached out to them.

No offense but this reeks of sensationalism, not substance. You haven't presented any new news about gachas legal standing, 'cause there isn't any. Not many will waste time commenting on a take like this especially with that 'pictured evidence' everyone that uses Second Life knows is super disingenuous.

Wagner James Au

Seph, I don't have a personal opinion about SL gachas one way or the other, and if I did, I'd disclose it upfront. But conversations like this keep coming up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/secondlife/comments/npwyyy/with_the_increased_attention_on_lootbox_and_fomo/

... so I asked a lawyer who's highly qualified to speak on both SL and the law her opinion -- there are very few people who are both -- and reported exactly what she told me.

Fair point about asking Linden Lab for a comment, but I doubt anything will obtain but a boilerplate response, given all the sticky issues involved. The company was pretty quiet about the status of all the skill games in SL... until they weren't.

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Wagner James Au
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