« Flashback: Roblox Abandoned China a Month After a Pro-Taiwan US User Accessed the Chinese Version Through the Great Firewall | Main | FTC Action Against Meta's Acquisition of Within Seems Poorly Placed When Meta is Losing Badly to Rec Room & VRChat »

Tuesday, July 26, 2022

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Kito

"less than 10k" is inaccurate if you're looking from Steam. Please observe the feedback canny of over 22k users requesting this to be reversed: https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves

I am also one who signed such a Feed Back, despite not liking mods. EAC will not solve the problems the devs are expecting it to do.

Luther Weymann

Where is the Emerald code when you need it?

Stacy

Not going to renew my yearly premium membership through steam now.

Tad Noodle

If anything, this makes me less inclined to VR chat, knowing the majority of the user base is toxic and spends their time in the game harassing and dosing people. I do hope, though, that the Devs will wade through the toxicity, listen to the productive feedback and implement features to help those with accessibility issues.

Your Argument Against Mods is Dumb

Quote:
Soo... The long blog post, praising EAC as a silver bullet that solves everything. Except it isn't, and the only thing it actually "solves" is wholesome modding.
Here's simple facts:
* Most games that use EAC (or other anti-cheats) still have cheaters. For VRChat, this means that malicious mods will still exist and be used to annoy people in publics.
* Some of VRChat's problems (avatar ripping, crashing) have nothing to do with client mods. It's exceedingly easy to do both without mods. In fact, wholesome mods are used to prevent crashing and make ripping harder. All EAC does in this case is make people crash more due to lack of protections.
* The blog post once again shifts the blame to mods for account theft. At the same time, VRChat Team soft-endorses OSC software, "as long as you can build it from sources yourself". What do you know, the same applies to most wholesome mods - they're completely open-source and safe. This is a blatant two-faced lie to spin the narrative in your interests.
* Mods causing issues for creators or VRChat Team on game updates? The main source of update breakage is VRChat deliberately obfuscating their code, making mod development harder. As for creator issues, some mods also provide brand new possibilities that VRChat refuses to consider or will consider "soon" (see below).
* VRChat has been historically slow at adding features. You promise mod features "soon" but people can have them now, via mods. It's very likely that "soon" in this case will be either "years", or "never" for more niche features or features that don't align with your team's grand vision. To this day IK2 is far from perfect (people still use you-know-what), avatar favorites are pitifully limited, and most mod features are not even mentioned anywhere, with their canny posts lying forgotten and buried.
* You have a lot of angry people on your hands, duh.
Given that this update seemingly fixes nothing while also angering quite a few people, how about you choose a different course of action? Here's what I suggest:
* Drop EAC and forget it ever existed. Same for any other anti-cheat.
* Focus on actual security - not trusting the client, fixing exploits, having serverside checks. It's actual work, but it's also the only thing that has results. Not pretending that an anti-cheat solves anything.
* Drop obfuscation from most of the code. It didn't stop modding and only caused issues on game updates. Mods for non-obfuscated games break way less on updates. You can keep obfuscation on parts you deem critical to security, like Photon - not that it will stop anyone, but at least it will send a clear signal.
* Adapt to the reality of people modding the client. Update TOS to distinguish malicious and non-malicious modifications. Normalize talking about mods, so that most issues investigations can be safely started with "do you use any mods? If yes, try without them". You don't have to support mods, obviously, but you'll have way easier time dealing with the fact that people use them.

Your Argument Against Mods is Dumb

I want to add even more to the discussion about using mods causes you to get your account stolen.

Not a single Quality of Life or Accessibility mod ever, ever did this. This is what happens when you go to a sketchy website trying to get a risky and cheaty mod. That's the risk you take when you respond to the arabian prince who promises you his family's wealth.

Get your mods from trusted sources that have all their code up on Github for everyone to review. These public posted quality of life mods were 99% of the mods in use by users. Not the 1% toxic trolls. How do I know? I basically live in VRChat for the past 8 months, acruing 2,000 hours of game time. I basically live there every evening 7 days a week.

I personally know a laundry list of content creators (asset creators, not streamers) and again the majority are against EAC. So if you want to convince anyone here how awful mods are, you're going to need more proof.

Oh, asking for my proof? That quote from above and the Link from Kito... is posted by Knah, the largest creator of public reviewable mods. Anyone can check the code and activity. They have a Discord with 68,000 members. 40,000 online at any given time.

Another massive quality of life mod that obeyed "Morals" was emmVRC. Their discord has 109,300 members, 60,000 currently online. Thats half of the entire population of the VRChat official discord.

So no, we were not a minority. If you are looking at the PC Population, it was damn near the entire population. The entire population here at almost 8pm in VRChat steam... is 18,156.

OkZoomer

Damn we thought people on secondlife were addicted to living online? VRchat users make us look downright normal

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Wagner James Au
Wagner James "Hamlet" Au
Dutchie Summer Special
Nylon Pinkney Outfitters in SL
my site ... ... ...